I don't think Previte was ever made. In his book he talks about John Stanfa privately telling him that he's like a made guy now but they would do an official ceremony later. Stanfa got arrested prior to the ceremony occurring. Later on, Merlino tells Bobby Luisi to treat Previte "like he's one of us". Which is a strange phrase if Joey considered Big Ron to be made, considering the many ways Merlino could have simply said that he was a friend of ours instead of "like" a friend of ours". Then you look at the group, Joey, George and company, trying to bet into Ron's book. Say what you want about those guys, but betting into a made guy's book is asking for big trouble. I don't believe they considered Big Ron made, so they didn't give a fuck, regardless of whether he was paying tribute to them.
A lot of things get said when a guy does an interview and a book and his people are selling both (blah, blah Last Gangster, Capo etc.) but looking at it from Cosa Nostra stand point, I don't think he should or would be considered to be a made guy. Doesn't mean he wasn't in charge of Hammonton and threw a lot of money to Merlino. Doesn't mean he didn't say he was made after he ratted, but doesn't make it so.
Where’s Philly’s indictment?
Moderator: Capos
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
He held the rank of Captain. So by default he was recognized as a made member.
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Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
By what default? George Anastasia? FBI during the mid-90's? Tell me one made guy who was supposed to have reported to him? Tell me where someone with Merlino referred to him as a captain? I'm not buying what Previte was selling in the media because his testimony under oath never included the details of his making ceremony or being made a captain. He was selling books, imo.
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
By LE. They had him listed as a Capo in 1995 and again in 1999. All long before GA wrote that book. And one doesn't need to have made members under them to hold that rank. There have been plenty of Capos with no Soldiers under them.
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Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
The problem is there isn't a set of things that *must* be done in order for a guy to be considered made. The lack of a ceremony, particularly in places like Chicago or even the Bonannos, where "bare bones" type of inductions were held at one point in time, are basically moot if a boss or the family recognizes the guy as made. Hell, Casso (I think) made a guy in a prison bathroom with nothing but toilet paper.
If Stanfa (and later Merlino) said he was made then that's it right there. Now, if they want to go back and "redo" a ceremony (a la Gotti and the DeCavalcantes) that's on them, but I don't think a ceremony -- or lack thereof -- is the base indicator over whether or not guys are considered "made."
If Stanfa (and later Merlino) said he was made then that's it right there. Now, if they want to go back and "redo" a ceremony (a la Gotti and the DeCavalcantes) that's on them, but I don't think a ceremony -- or lack thereof -- is the base indicator over whether or not guys are considered "made."
Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
I understand that a guy can hold the rank of Capo without soldiers, though I don't know if there is precedent for that in Philly. More common in Philly historically are guys being direct with the boss or with other admin and not reporting through a captain.
Snakes, the problem I have is with what Previte said, not Stanfa. Previte said Stanfa told him privately he was like a made guy and then said he would make it official with a ceremony later. What's to make official if he's already in? We don't know what Stanfa said or if he really said anything but we he didn't say "you're in" or Previte sure would have said that. Previte was around just as much as Freddy Aldrich and Freddy obviously wasn't made and Fillipelli got a ceremony and was official. By Previte own words, he didn't get a ceremony and the boss said he needed one, to be official.
Now Joey and Ralph take over and probably Ralph treated him initially like he was a made guy because he didn't know. But Joey has a trial for the Boston drugs and there are no tapes where Joey is saying Ron is a captain. All we have is Joey telling Bobby Luisi to treat him "like he was one of us". I think a good sign of how the Philly admin viewed big Ron in the late 90's is that they took his money and George and Angelo Lutz tried directly to guzzle him. If Joey, George and Ron are all made guys there would be a sit and a big problem. Even in the late 90's as a made guy Ron would have a legit beef. Instead Big Ron doesn't do shit. He tries to explain in away in his book but I believe he didn't do shit its because Ron wasn't made and couldn't sit equal with George. All he could do was go to Joey for protection, which is what he did. He then ratted and just fabricated his rep to sell books. Could be different but that's the way I see it.
Snakes, the problem I have is with what Previte said, not Stanfa. Previte said Stanfa told him privately he was like a made guy and then said he would make it official with a ceremony later. What's to make official if he's already in? We don't know what Stanfa said or if he really said anything but we he didn't say "you're in" or Previte sure would have said that. Previte was around just as much as Freddy Aldrich and Freddy obviously wasn't made and Fillipelli got a ceremony and was official. By Previte own words, he didn't get a ceremony and the boss said he needed one, to be official.
Now Joey and Ralph take over and probably Ralph treated him initially like he was a made guy because he didn't know. But Joey has a trial for the Boston drugs and there are no tapes where Joey is saying Ron is a captain. All we have is Joey telling Bobby Luisi to treat him "like he was one of us". I think a good sign of how the Philly admin viewed big Ron in the late 90's is that they took his money and George and Angelo Lutz tried directly to guzzle him. If Joey, George and Ron are all made guys there would be a sit and a big problem. Even in the late 90's as a made guy Ron would have a legit beef. Instead Big Ron doesn't do shit. He tries to explain in away in his book but I believe he didn't do shit its because Ron wasn't made and couldn't sit equal with George. All he could do was go to Joey for protection, which is what he did. He then ratted and just fabricated his rep to sell books. Could be different but that's the way I see it.
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SonnyBlackstein
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
One has no bearing on the other. During the 90s Merlino and his crew refused to recognize the authority of several made members, killed a made member without an OK and tried to kill several more without an OK. Doesn't change the fact that they were made members. Likewise Merlino and crew screwed Natale out of money in the late 90s. Doesn't change the fact that Natale was recognized as a a made member.
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It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
I'm not quibbling with Rons inclusion on your list. I think arguing Ron was made and even a captain is conventional wisdom considering LE's position and his non-sworn statements on TV interviews and books etc. I'm just saying they all had a stake in bragging his status up but that I think the underworld viewed him differently.
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Fughedaboutit
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Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
I agree with Dack, I wouldn't take Previte's word on his "made" status. When he was listed previously before the book he was probably already a rat and told LE he was a made guy to get more money out of them and prop up his status.Guy was a professional con artist and bullshit artist all his life self admittedly. He could have fed that info to the FBI and said hey I am a made guy and Captain, so they listed him. Always was shaky on him being an officially made member.
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
So why didn't they list Roger Vella as a made guy when he told them he was made when he wasn't? They aren't that gullible.
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Fughedaboutit
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Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
Dack's point below stands out to me...Not sure how to refute the guys own words but who knows. Roger was an obvious clown, Previte was more convincing and had the gift of gab. Vella was a hanger on fan boy with Merlino posters on his wall similar to Jeff Canarsie lol
Snakes, the problem I have is with what Previte said, not Stanfa. Previte said Stanfa told him privately he was like a made guy and then said he would make it official with a ceremony later. What's to make official if he's already in? We don't know what Stanfa said or if he really said anything but we he didn't say "you're in" or Previte sure would have said that. Previte was around just as much as Freddy Aldrich and Freddy obviously wasn't made and Fillipelli got a ceremony and was official. By Previte own words, he didn't get a ceremony and the boss said he needed one, to be official.
Snakes, the problem I have is with what Previte said, not Stanfa. Previte said Stanfa told him privately he was like a made guy and then said he would make it official with a ceremony later. What's to make official if he's already in? We don't know what Stanfa said or if he really said anything but we he didn't say "you're in" or Previte sure would have said that. Previte was around just as much as Freddy Aldrich and Freddy obviously wasn't made and Fillipelli got a ceremony and was official. By Previte own words, he didn't get a ceremony and the boss said he needed one, to be official.
"I wanna hear some noise." "Tell Salvie to clean the boat, the whole boat top to bottom" -Nicodemo "Nicky" Scarfo Sr"
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
Yeah I'm finding that really hard to believe. That a guy who is clearly not made could lie to LE about not only being made but hold the rank Capo and them being dumb enough to not only fall for it but believe it for almost 5 years. All the while they have numerous wires and informants that would have told them different.
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Fughedaboutit
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Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
You are entitled to your opinion. And we are entitled to ours.
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: Where’s Philly’s indictment?
Except it is not a matter of opinion vs. opion. It is established fact vs. opinion.
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It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.