Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

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Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by Confederate » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:09 pm

B. wrote: ↑Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:40 pm Valachi going with the Genovese may have also been an ethnic decision. Whether or not he was aware of that is unclear, but he was influenced by the advice of others to join the Genovese along with the fact that he was looking to save his own life as a former Maranzano loyalist. He was Neapolitan and the Genovese family was quickly becoming dominated by Neapolitans and Calabrians, particularly the influence of the Genovese/Strollo group that Valachi joined. Valachi was out of place in the Sicilian-centric Bonannos and to a slightly lesser extent the Gaglianos.

Also the Profaci question isn't clear... the succession of that family looks to have been Mineo>DiBella>Profaci. Magaddino mentions DiBella speaking up at an important meeting during the war and I believe CC/Antiliar theorized that DiBella took over the family when Mineo jumped over to lead the former D'Aquila family, though there isn't info on when he may have stepped down/been deposed. If he was a Mineo puppet, he may have lost his position upon Mineo's death or when Masseria lost influence/was killed. Profaci was likely a ranking member of some kind by 1928, as he attended the Cleveland meeting and brought Magliocco as an aide.
Valachi joining the Genovese Family because they were being dominated by Neapolitans & Calabrians is a good point. Same reason the Outfit was aligned with the Genovese Family. Both groups much more Camorra influenced, especially the Chicago Outfit.

Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by B. » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:40 pm

Valachi going with the Genovese may have also been an ethnic decision. Whether or not he was aware of that is unclear, but he was influenced by the advice of others to join the Genovese along with the fact that he was looking to save his own life as a former Maranzano loyalist. He was Neapolitan and the Genovese family was quickly becoming dominated by Neapolitans and Calabrians, particularly the influence of the Genovese/Strollo group that Valachi joined. Valachi was out of place in the Sicilian-centric Bonannos and to a slightly lesser extent the Gaglianos.

Also the Profaci question isn't clear... the succession of that family looks to have been Mineo>DiBella>Profaci. Magaddino mentions DiBella speaking up at an important meeting during the war and I believe CC/Antiliar theorized that DiBella took over the family when Mineo jumped over to lead the former D'Aquila family, though there isn't info on when he may have stepped down/been deposed. If he was a Mineo puppet, he may have lost his position upon Mineo's death or when Masseria lost influence/was killed. Profaci was likely a ranking member of some kind by 1928, as he attended the Cleveland meeting and brought Magliocco as an aide.

Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by DPG » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:25 pm

Lupara wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:02 pm Profaci was already the Colombo boss before the war? When did he take over?
Two other men appear to have benefited greatly from the elimination of Yale. Anthony Carfano took charge of many of Yale's lucrative rackets.[44] And Giuseppe Profaci, who quietly led a small Mafia organization comprised of relatives and fellow immigrants from Villabate, Sicily, assumed control of Yale men and territory in southern Brooklyn. The added strength and prestige instantly made Profaci a significant player in the national Mafia network.[45]

Copied from: http://mafiahistory.us/a025/f_yale.html

Source info:
 Hunt, Thomas, "What do we know
about Frankie Yale?," The American Mafia, mafiahistory.us, accessed July 24, 2018.

Copyright © Thomas Hunt

Yale is killed July 1, 1928 and then Dec. 5th Profaci is picked up at the Hotel Statler meeting in Cleveland.

Those two things added together would lead me to believe the end of 1928 being when Profaci became boss.

Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by Pogo The Clown » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:18 pm

He took over around 1930. Joe Bonanno talks about him being the Boss when the war broke out.


Pogo

Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by Villain » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:07 pm

Lupara wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:02 pm Profaci was already the Colombo boss before the war? When did he take over?
I just thought about the same thing....if he took over during the late 20s, then it seems that he was the boss for over three decades

Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by Lupara » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:02 pm

Profaci was already the Colombo boss before the war? When did he take over?

Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by Pogo The Clown » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:53 am

Confederate wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:32 am Before the Maranzano/Masseria war, were there 5 Families in New York? What were the names of the Families in New York before the big war? There was Maranzano, Masseria and who else? If there were more than these two families, who sided with whom?
What was the structure of the Mafia in New York BEFORE the War?

There were families. The bosses were


Joe Masseria (Genovese)
Al Mineo (Gambino)
Cola Schiro (Bonanno)
Tom Reina (Lucchese)
Joe Profaci (Colombo)


As tension mounted Schiro fled NY in fear from Masseria at which point Maranzano took over. Masseria feared that Reina would side with Maranzano so he had him killed and installed Joe Pinzolo as the boss. The Reina loyalists headed by Tom Gagliano killed Pinzolo and took over the family, So when the fighting broke out it was Massseria-Mineo angaint Maranzano-Gagliano. Profaci was technically neutral but supported Maranzano-Gagliano. Outside of NY, the Chicago Outfit supported Masseria while Joe Aiello's family supported Maranzano (Aiello was of course killed). Buffalo and Philly also supported Maranzano. In Detroit the family was split with one faction supporting Masseria and the other Marazano (the marazano faction won).


Pogo

Re: RE: Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by DPG » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:44 am

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:30 am
Lupara wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:30 am Why did he actually want to be with Genovese instead of staying with the Bonannos?

Once Maranzano was killed Valachi lost his rabbi so to speak in that family. He should have went back to Gagliano but was convinced it would be smarter move to go with Genovese and Luciano whom Maranzano was plotting to kill when he himself was murdered.
I love in the movie when they ask him what family he went with after Maranzano got killed. "Haven't you been listening? I RAN!"

Re: RE: Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by johnny_scootch » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:30 am

Lupara wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:30 am Why did he actually want to be with Genovese instead of staying with the Bonannos?

Once Maranzano was killed Valachi lost his rabbi so to speak in that family. He should have went back to Gagliano but was convinced it would be smarter move to go with Genovese and Luciano whom Maranzano was plotting to kill when he himself was murdered.

Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by Confederate » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:41 am

Oh, Okay. Thank you. :)

Re: RE: Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by Lupara » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:31 am

Confederate wrote:Before the Maranzano/Masseria war, were there 5 Families in New York? What were the names of the Families in New York before the big war? There was Maranzano, Masseria and who else? If there were more than these two families, who sided with whom?
What was the structure of the Mafia in New York BEFORE the War?
CC and Antiliar have written an extensive piece of research about this in one of the Informer magazines.

Re: RE: Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by Lupara » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:30 am

B. wrote:
Confederate wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:55 pm How did Valachi briefly join the Bonnano's? Was he made into the Lucchese Family before the great Mafia War between Maranzano and Masseria? In what year was Valachi made and how old was he at that point? Was he placed into the Genovese Family after the war by Maranzano?
He was a Lucchese associate who was made into that family as part of a joint ceremony between the Luccheses and Bonannos. After the war, Maranzano announced that anyone who worked under him during the war could continue on under him, which Valachi volunteered to do, but Tommy Lucchese tried to intervene saying it was a mistake, though Valachi decided to stay with Maranzano. After Maranzano was killed, it was arranged for Valachi to transfer into the Genovese family.
Why did he actually want to be with Genovese instead of staying with the Bonannos?

Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by Confederate » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:32 am

Before the Maranzano/Masseria war, were there 5 Families in New York? What were the names of the Families in New York before the big war? There was Maranzano, Masseria and who else? If there were more than these two families, who sided with whom?
What was the structure of the Mafia in New York BEFORE the War?

Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by B. » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:05 am

Confederate wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:55 pm How did Valachi briefly join the Bonnano's? Was he made into the Lucchese Family before the great Mafia War between Maranzano and Masseria? In what year was Valachi made and how old was he at that point? Was he placed into the Genovese Family after the war by Maranzano?
He was a Lucchese associate who was made into that family as part of a joint ceremony between the Luccheses and Bonannos. After the war, Maranzano announced that anyone who worked under him during the war could continue on under him, which Valachi volunteered to do, but Tommy Lucchese tried to intervene saying it was a mistake, though Valachi decided to stay with Maranzano. After Maranzano was killed, it was arranged for Valachi to transfer into the Genovese family.

Re: Valachi's non-NYC membership estimates

by Confederate » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:55 pm

How did Valachi briefly join the Bonnano's? Was he made into the Lucchese Family before the great Mafia War between Maranzano and Masseria? In what year was Valachi made and how old was he at that point? Was he placed into the Genovese Family after the war by Maranzano?

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