Kicking up

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Re: Kicking up

by Wiseguy » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:43 pm

Slava wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:20 am
SonnyBlackstein wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:08 pm Being made is simply the license to steal.
You still have to go out and do the stealing.
The more I read about the modern American LCN, the more I wonder why anyone would like to become a made guy these days. Wouldn't it be much easier to pursue a criminal career independently with a small crew of your own?

I mean what can the mob really give you these days? Protection? Not really, those guys are old and don't have neither the manpower nor the clout that they use to have. Instead, they'll likely just rat you out and get you RICO'd. Most of their rackets are local illegal gambling rings where you have to actually bust your ass to earn money, it's basically like a real job only that you can get in jail for it.

I understand that it was different back in the Goodfellas days when it was indeed a licence to steal and they controlled Italian-American neighborhoods and could kill people if they didn't give them a cut, but as it is right now they're not scary at all.

They're old as hell too. I wonder how they can even maintain discipline and enforce people to give them their share. If you tell them to fuck off, what the hell could they even do about it? Are they going to send some fat 60 year old to kill you and hope that he doesn't have a heart attack?

If you look at the European organized crime groups it's a bunch of dangerous men in their 20s and 30s while looking at those charts that you post here the American LCN looks like a retirement club.
There are still plenty of relatively younger guys, made or not, who can give the beatings. And just about anyone can pull a trigger regardless of their age.

Re: Kicking up

by Confederate » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:13 pm

Slava wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:20 am
SonnyBlackstein wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:08 pm Being made is simply the license to steal.
You still have to go out and do the stealing.
The more I read about the modern American LCN, the more I wonder why anyone would like to become a made guy these days. Wouldn't it be much easier to pursue a criminal career independently with a small crew of your own?

I mean what can the mob really give you these days? Protection? Not really, those guys are old and don't have neither the manpower nor the clout that they use to have. Instead, they'll likely just rat you out and get you RICO'd. Most of their rackets are local illegal gambling rings where you have to actually bust your ass to earn money, it's basically like a real job only that you can get in jail for it.

I understand that it was different back in the Goodfellas days when it was indeed a licence to steal and they controlled Italian-American neighborhoods and could kill people if they didn't give them a cut, but as it is right now they're not scary at all.

They're old as hell too. I wonder how they can even maintain discipline and enforce people to give them their share. If you tell them to fuck off, what the hell could they even do about it? Are they going to send some fat 60 year old to kill you and hope that he doesn't have a heart attack?

If you look at the European organized crime groups it's a bunch of dangerous men in their 20s and 30s while looking at those charts that you post here the American LCN looks like a retirement club.
Again, what you said is only PARTIALLY true but not completely true. You have to SEPERATE the New York 5 Families from the 5 other small Families.
There is a big difference between the Genovese Family and whatever is left of the Detroit Family.

Re: Kicking up

by Slava » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:20 am

SonnyBlackstein wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:08 pm Being made is simply the license to steal.
You still have to go out and do the stealing.
The more I read about the modern American LCN, the more I wonder why anyone would like to become a made guy these days. Wouldn't it be much easier to pursue a criminal career independently with a small crew of your own?

I mean what can the mob really give you these days? Protection? Not really, those guys are old and don't have neither the manpower nor the clout that they use to have. Instead, they'll likely just rat you out and get you RICO'd. Most of their rackets are local illegal gambling rings where you have to actually bust your ass to earn money, it's basically like a real job only that you can get in jail for it.

I understand that it was different back in the Goodfellas days when it was indeed a licence to steal and they controlled Italian-American neighborhoods and could kill people if they didn't give them a cut, but as it is right now they're not scary at all.

They're old as hell too. I wonder how they can even maintain discipline and enforce people to give them their share. If you tell them to fuck off, what the hell could they even do about it? Are they going to send some fat 60 year old to kill you and hope that he doesn't have a heart attack?

If you look at the European organized crime groups it's a bunch of dangerous men in their 20s and 30s while looking at those charts that you post here the American LCN looks like a retirement club.

Re: Kicking up

by Confederate » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:58 pm

SonnyBlackstein wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:08 pm Being made is simply the license to steal.
You still have to go out and do the stealing.
Yes, very true. A very expensive license many times. :lol:

Re: Kicking up

by SonnyBlackstein » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:08 pm

Being made is simply the license to steal.
You still have to go out and do the stealing.

Re: Kicking up

by Confederate » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:34 pm

From what I read, some made guys were actually in partnership with their Capo on a large ongoing enterprise. Other guys operated separately from their Boss but had to get permission from him before they started anything. In addition, some scams would come up periodically and that is when they would report to their Boss what the scam involved and what was earned from it. For guys who operated not in direct partnership with their Boss, It seemed like it was better for them to kick up a percentage of the profit because then he could understate it rather than be tied to a specific amount.
Also, some made guys got some money loaned to them from their Boss and would put it out on the street. An agreed upon percentage was discussed ahead of time.

Re: Kicking up

by HairyKnuckles » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:21 am

Any soldier is obligated to "touch base" with his skipper on a regular basis. When they meet, the skipper will require his soldier to report what income and what racket he has. Usually they come to an agreement of what the soldier will kick up depending on the situation. If the soldier has a large, successful racket, the skipper will demand a large kick up. But if the soldier is not earning or perhaps just recently been released from jail, the kick up will be smaller or in some case non. So it all depends on what the situation the soldier is in and what the situation is between the soldier and the skipper.

Skippers kick up depending on their relationship with the boss. But they are expected to kick up a larger amount of money at Christmas time, 4th of July or perhaps at the boss´s birthday as a sign of respect. It´s an unwritten rule. A skipper who needs a favor from his boss, will kick up more and a skipper who kicks up insignificantly will be marginalized or in some cases demoted by the boss.

In the past, some bosses have imposed a tax on all members. Profaci did it. Gambino did it. Vito Genovese did when he was jailed etc. And more recently, Massino did it when he was arrested and tried in the early 2000s. Informants have said, back in the 1960s, that it was an amount of 10 dollars per member and slightly higher for capos and that the money was supposed to be used for legal expenses for members. But of course, the payouts from these "funds" would relay on the boss´s generosity. Gambino for example, used thsese funds for own purposes.

Re: Kicking up

by Jonkaro » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:06 pm

With the FBI listening to every shit they take, I'd say collections are probably no more monthly at random intervals. No one wants to risk getting caught with a large sum of cash. .. . The latest indictments I can recall all have business collections being done each month at a set amount. (ie. $300/mo for poker machines in one of the more recent Patriarca indictments)

Re: Kicking up

by Pogo The Clown » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:35 am

PHL_Mob wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:17 am Remember that scene in The Sopranos (Pogo is quoting Paulie in this scene in his post above) where Christopher has to rob a college benefit concert in order to make his weekly kick-up quota to Paulie despite losing a money that week on his sports book.

This being made ain't working out the way I thought it would. A lot of responsibilities. You're only as fuckin' smart as this week's lines. One false move and you spend your fuckin' time chasing it instead of making money.


Pogo

Re: Kicking up

by PHL_Mob » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:17 am

I know collections are weekly and then my guess is they kick up a percentage of their monthly take at the first of every month. I've noticed at some places I hang that the guys that are with certain connected guys always come by every Wednesday night at 6PM on the dot like clockwork. So basically they collect every week and then either send 10% of that upstairs at the end of the week or the first of every month depending on what what level it's going to. But for instance, I bet someone is going down to FL with Joey's envelope at the beginning of every month and not weekly. And then most likely weekly kick up at the Associate to Solider level and then most likely weekly for the soldier to Capo level as well. Also, I bet there is a minimum regardless of how much you made that week/month and if you lost money or made money. Remember that scene in The Sopranos (Pogo is quoting Paulie in this scene in his post above) where Christopher has to rob a college benefit concert in order to make his weekly kick-up quota to Paulie despite losing a money that week on his sports book.

Re: Kicking up

by Pogo The Clown » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:21 am

JeremyTheJew wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:19 am 5g a month for chris to kick to paulie?

or chris to tony? id think 5g to a boss would be small but for a smaller family its not so bad i guess

It was Chris to Paulie since Paulie was his Capo.


Pogo

Re: Kicking up

by JeremyTheJew » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:19 am

5g a month for chris to kick to paulie?

or chris to tony? id think 5g to a boss would be small but for a smaller family its not so bad i guess

Re: Kicking up

by Eddie mush » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:14 am

Yea i recall that he said $50 K
Sopranos paulie tell chriss $5K every wk and watever is left over is his weather its alot of a little

But for real life both franzess and henry hill say kick up wat u can .

Re: Kicking up

by Wiseguy » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:45 pm

JeremyTheJew wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:10 pm does remind me of the scene in donnie Brasco when sonny black is yelling at them and he says: "i gotta answer to 10 grand a month"
I think in the film Sonny Black said it was $50,000 a month.

Re: Kicking up

by Pogo The Clown » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:13 pm

Welcome to the NFL rookie.


Pogo

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