by PolackTony » Sat May 17, 2025 3:42 pm
Camo wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 3:34 pm
PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 3:22 pm
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 3:01 pm
It would make sense for an administration member to be present if his presence would cause the target to lower their guard.
I'm reminded of the Sonny Black murder, where official Bonanno consigliere Steve Cannone came along to the house to put Napolitano at ease and left immediately after he was shot.
According to Sal Vitale, official boss Phil Rastelli was standing by at a diner when Caesar Bonventre was killed. Bonventre was lured to his death under a pretence of attending a meeting with Rastelli, so they had him nearby if for whatever reason the murder could not go ahead then the meeting could still take place so as not to arouse Bonventre's suspicion.
Vic Amuso may have already been the official Lucchese boss when he was present for the murder of Buddy Luongo.
Even in Chicago, Sam Carlisi and John DiFronzo were both present for the faux-initiation ceremony set up to kill the Spilotro brothers. Carlisi would have been the boss at that time and DiFronzo was probably the underboss.
All great examples to illustrate this point. While we don’t know — and likely never will for sure — who the actual gunman was in the Giancana hit, the idea that Accardo, then consigliere, very likely played some direct role in the event is not far fetched in the least and as you note, it would not be unique in the history of the American mafia by any means if he did. On top of his position in the admin at the time — and one which is specifically focused on protecting the interests of the membership — the longstanding and likely very personal relationship of the two men in question adds another layer of plausibility.
That we now know for a fact that Nick told the Feds that LaPietra told him that Accardo was involved is the news here. Otherwise, the idea that Accardo was involved shouldn’t come as much of a surprise at this point IMO.
Is there any other example of a Boss (or any admin member) personally killing someone because they felt personally responsible for them? Genuinely asking as i don't think i've heard that before.
My issue is Butch Blasi is already in the perfect position to kill him and would be the person keeping him at ease, feels unneccessary to me to include someone else especially an old Boss. None of the above examples have the Boss personally killing the person and i don't think any were as old as Accardo or in such a risky situtaion with the cops watching him. You did say the claim isn't necessarily that Accardo personally pulled the trigger so i'm not debating with your view here more saying that the thing i have issue with is the idea of Accardo personally killing him, if someone said Accardo was at a diner down the street like Rusty to make sure it went off i'd be able to accept that more. Just my view anyway not trying to change anyones mind but i still see it as farfetched. I believed Accardo was involved before i heard any of these claims, it's just to me his involvement was giving the order.
Who said that Accardo was the guy who actually shot Giancana? I didn’t say that. In the excerpt from his 302, Nick Calabrese didn’t say that.
The claim that Accardo was “involved” in some direct way with the hit is not the same as the claim that Accardo was the actual gunman. Nick Calabrese’s vague statement to the FBI, based on an account that he received from Angelo LaPietra (who we can presume was not extravagantly detailed about the matter, to say the least), adds support for the former claim, not the latter.
[quote=Camo post_id=294007 time=1747521297 user_id=398]
[quote=PolackTony post_id=294004 time=1747520568 user_id=6658]
[quote=chin_gigante post_id=294000 time=1747519273 user_id=5708]
It would make sense for an administration member to be present if his presence would cause the target to lower their guard.
I'm reminded of the Sonny Black murder, where official Bonanno consigliere Steve Cannone came along to the house to put Napolitano at ease and left immediately after he was shot.
According to Sal Vitale, official boss Phil Rastelli was standing by at a diner when Caesar Bonventre was killed. Bonventre was lured to his death under a pretence of attending a meeting with Rastelli, so they had him nearby if for whatever reason the murder could not go ahead then the meeting could still take place so as not to arouse Bonventre's suspicion.
Vic Amuso may have already been the official Lucchese boss when he was present for the murder of Buddy Luongo.
Even in Chicago, Sam Carlisi and John DiFronzo were both present for the faux-initiation ceremony set up to kill the Spilotro brothers. Carlisi would have been the boss at that time and DiFronzo was probably the underboss.
[/quote]
All great examples to illustrate this point. While we don’t know — and likely never will for sure — who the actual gunman was in the Giancana hit, the idea that Accardo, then consigliere, very likely played some direct role in the event is not far fetched in the least and as you note, it would not be unique in the history of the American mafia by any means if he did. On top of his position in the admin at the time — and one which is specifically focused on protecting the interests of the membership — the longstanding and likely very personal relationship of the two men in question adds another layer of plausibility.
That we now know for a fact that Nick told the Feds that LaPietra told him that Accardo was involved is the news here. Otherwise, the idea that Accardo was involved shouldn’t come as much of a surprise at this point IMO.
[/quote]
Is there any other example of a Boss (or any admin member) personally killing someone because they felt personally responsible for them? Genuinely asking as i don't think i've heard that before.
My issue is Butch Blasi is already in the perfect position to kill him and would be the person keeping him at ease, feels unneccessary to me to include someone else especially an old Boss. None of the above examples have the Boss personally killing the person and i don't think any were as old as Accardo or in such a risky situtaion with the cops watching him. You did say the claim isn't necessarily that Accardo personally pulled the trigger so i'm not debating with your view here more saying that the thing i have issue with is the idea of Accardo personally killing him, if someone said Accardo was at a diner down the street like Rusty to make sure it went off i'd be able to accept that more. Just my view anyway not trying to change anyones mind but i still see it as farfetched. I believed Accardo was involved before i heard any of these claims, it's just to me his involvement was giving the order.
[/quote]
Who said that Accardo was the guy who actually shot Giancana? I didn’t say that. In the excerpt from his 302, Nick Calabrese didn’t say that.
The claim that Accardo was “involved” in some direct way with the hit is not the same as the claim that Accardo was the actual gunman. Nick Calabrese’s vague statement to the FBI, based on an account that he received from Angelo LaPietra (who we can presume was not extravagantly detailed about the matter, to say the least), adds support for the former claim, not the latter.