THE BLACK HAND FORUM

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:48 am

Pmac2 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:34 am I think crea knew after the fact. there was no need for Madonna to tell him or plot with him. crea got railroad. I think I asked pennisi in his comments if he thinks crea was guilty of the murder and he said something like. ha good try fan boy. I was just asking a simple question. cause I don't think he's guilty but oh well

Pennisi is so sensitive

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 1:42 pm

Camo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 9:35 am
I'll also point out we heard this same thing about Steven Crea for years that he was smart and low-key then his ending made him look the complete opposite.

You have to agree the Crea conviction was absolute bullshit. Zero association to a murder yet convicted via association. Zero evidence. ZERO.

What happened to Crea could as easily have happened to Barney or Dom.

jmack wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 10:16 am

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 1:42 pm

Camo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 9:35 am
I'll also point out we heard this same thing about Steven Crea for years that he was smart and low-key then his ending made him look the complete opposite.

You have to agree the Crea conviction was absolute bullshit. Zero association to a murder yet convicted via association. Zero evidence. ZERO.

What happened to Crea could as easily have happened to Barney or Dom.

Yeah, I’m no mob apologist, but Crea and Allie Boy Persico got railroaded. No evidence against Crea other than his position in the mob. With Persico, he was convicted on a theory of the crime that was later proven false. The whole premise of his case was that the body was dumped in the ocean. They then found him nowhere near the ocean. That said I think Allie is guilty as sin and Crea is *probably* guilty.

Pmac2 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 11:34 am I think crea knew after the fact. there was no need for Madonna to tell him or plot with him. crea got railroad. I think I asked pennisi in his comments if he thinks crea was guilty of the murder and he said something like. ha good try fan boy. I was just asking a simple question. cause I don't think he's guilty but oh well

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 1:42 pm

Camo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 9:35 am
I'll also point out we heard this same thing about Steven Crea for years that he was smart and low-key then his ending made him look the complete opposite.

You have to agree the Crea conviction was absolute bullshit. Zero association to a murder yet convicted via association. Zero evidence. ZERO.

What happened to Crea could as easily have happened to Barney or Dom.

Camo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 9:35 am
I'll also point out we heard this same thing about Steven Crea for years that he was smart and low-key then his ending made him look the complete opposite.

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 8:08 am

Camo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 21, 2025 4:46 pm

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 21, 2025 11:46 am

Camo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:21 pm

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:37 am I can't see Gene becoming boss. Of course this is pure speculation on my part but I think the majority of the family would see gene getting the reins as going backwards. They're better off with the quiet Sicilian leadership. If Gene is in fact back in the fold they can placate him by giving him some power or autonomy, but there's much more sophisticated, low profile, guys that I have to believe the family would rather in charge. That Gotti name brings way too much heat and headlines, and after 35 years on the inside, there has to have been relationships, rapport, and good will made with guys and other families that Gene does not have at this point. Just my two cents.

Didn't the last bust involving these "sophistacted" Sicilians have a Gambino Captain pictured buying gas to burn down a restaraunt? I don't know why people assume they are sophisticated, if they are from areas with vast corruption like Italy then they aren't faced with the same LE pressure as America. That's why they suffer less consequences and flip less they aren't somehow inherently better at crime than others, the State dictates the level criminals can reach as we've seen with every top tier criminal ever: Pablo Escobar, El Chapo, Riina.

This story is ridiculous but so is the idea of certain criminals being "sophisticated" because they were born in Sicily. They are all violent idiots they are just more protected in certain areas.

Did Joe Lanni do that on orders from the Sicilian faction? I thought that was a reaction to being asked to leave the restaurant. I have heard he was coked up and/or drunk. Even if he got the order from Dom or Lorenzo I doubt they wanted it carried out that way. Dom C maybe semi retired, but the guy has been labeled as the official boss for almost 15 years and we hardly even have a picture of him. I don't mean that all Sicilian born guys are more sophisticated but for some of the higher up Sicilians they seem to be more shadowy and low key than say the gotti faction. It was not meant as a general statement.

Hasn't Barney lasted around as long with a similar lack of information? Should we call him part of the sophisticated Sicilian faction?

Most of the "American" Gambino members have been very quiet during the same time. Which suggests a lack of acticity, a general change in operation or i guess something about the zips being sophisticated. When was the last bust of a "Gotti Faction" member? Pretty sure John Gambino and Lorenzo Mannino were hit just as hard as others during that era.

My argument would be that the WS conducts themselves a little different than the Gambino's. I would also argue that Dom C (again maybe he is out of the picture) is even more shadowy/ low key than Barney. The Gotti name still has a ton of attention and heat on it, and I would see it as a step backwards, especially if Gene is anything like John. Apologies if I wasn't clear, I am not try to paint with a large brush. Just comparing Lorenzo and Dom C to how things might change if the Gotti regime was back in charge. All of this is speculation. Do you think John or Pete Gotti ran the family better than today?

Camo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 21, 2025 4:46 pm

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 21, 2025 11:46 am

Camo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:21 pm

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:37 am I can't see Gene becoming boss. Of course this is pure speculation on my part but I think the majority of the family would see gene getting the reins as going backwards. They're better off with the quiet Sicilian leadership. If Gene is in fact back in the fold they can placate him by giving him some power or autonomy, but there's much more sophisticated, low profile, guys that I have to believe the family would rather in charge. That Gotti name brings way too much heat and headlines, and after 35 years on the inside, there has to have been relationships, rapport, and good will made with guys and other families that Gene does not have at this point. Just my two cents.

Didn't the last bust involving these "sophistacted" Sicilians have a Gambino Captain pictured buying gas to burn down a restaraunt? I don't know why people assume they are sophisticated, if they are from areas with vast corruption like Italy then they aren't faced with the same LE pressure as America. That's why they suffer less consequences and flip less they aren't somehow inherently better at crime than others, the State dictates the level criminals can reach as we've seen with every top tier criminal ever: Pablo Escobar, El Chapo, Riina.

This story is ridiculous but so is the idea of certain criminals being "sophisticated" because they were born in Sicily. They are all violent idiots they are just more protected in certain areas.

Did Joe Lanni do that on orders from the Sicilian faction? I thought that was a reaction to being asked to leave the restaurant. I have heard he was coked up and/or drunk. Even if he got the order from Dom or Lorenzo I doubt they wanted it carried out that way. Dom C maybe semi retired, but the guy has been labeled as the official boss for almost 15 years and we hardly even have a picture of him. I don't mean that all Sicilian born guys are more sophisticated but for some of the higher up Sicilians they seem to be more shadowy and low key than say the gotti faction. It was not meant as a general statement.

Hasn't Barney lasted around as long with a similar lack of information? Should we call him part of the sophisticated Sicilian faction?

Most of the "American" Gambino members have been very quiet during the same time. Which suggests a lack of acticity, a general change in operation or i guess something about the zips being sophisticated. When was the last bust of a "Gotti Faction" member? Pretty sure John Gambino and Lorenzo Mannino were hit just as hard as others during that era.

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 21, 2025 11:46 am

Camo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:21 pm

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:37 am I can't see Gene becoming boss. Of course this is pure speculation on my part but I think the majority of the family would see gene getting the reins as going backwards. They're better off with the quiet Sicilian leadership. If Gene is in fact back in the fold they can placate him by giving him some power or autonomy, but there's much more sophisticated, low profile, guys that I have to believe the family would rather in charge. That Gotti name brings way too much heat and headlines, and after 35 years on the inside, there has to have been relationships, rapport, and good will made with guys and other families that Gene does not have at this point. Just my two cents.

Didn't the last bust involving these "sophistacted" Sicilians have a Gambino Captain pictured buying gas to burn down a restaraunt? I don't know why people assume they are sophisticated, if they are from areas with vast corruption like Italy then they aren't faced with the same LE pressure as America. That's why they suffer less consequences and flip less they aren't somehow inherently better at crime than others, the State dictates the level criminals can reach as we've seen with every top tier criminal ever: Pablo Escobar, El Chapo, Riina.

This story is ridiculous but so is the idea of certain criminals being "sophisticated" because they were born in Sicily. They are all violent idiots they are just more protected in certain areas.

Did Joe Lanni do that on orders from the Sicilian faction? I thought that was a reaction to being asked to leave the restaurant. I have heard he was coked up and/or drunk. Even if he got the order from Dom or Lorenzo I doubt they wanted it carried out that way. Dom C maybe semi retired, but the guy has been labeled as the official boss for almost 15 years and we hardly even have a picture of him. I don't mean that all Sicilian born guys are more sophisticated but for some of the higher up Sicilians they seem to be more shadowy and low key than say the gotti faction. It was not meant as a general statement.

Camo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:21 pm

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:37 am I can't see Gene becoming boss. Of course this is pure speculation on my part but I think the majority of the family would see gene getting the reins as going backwards. They're better off with the quiet Sicilian leadership. If Gene is in fact back in the fold they can placate him by giving him some power or autonomy, but there's much more sophisticated, low profile, guys that I have to believe the family would rather in charge. That Gotti name brings way too much heat and headlines, and after 35 years on the inside, there has to have been relationships, rapport, and good will made with guys and other families that Gene does not have at this point. Just my two cents.

Didn't the last bust involving these "sophistacted" Sicilians have a Gambino Captain pictured buying gas to burn down a restaraunt? I don't know why people assume they are sophisticated, if they are from areas with vast corruption like Italy then they aren't faced with the same LE pressure as America. That's why they suffer less consequences and flip less they aren't somehow inherently better at crime than others, the State dictates the level criminals can reach as we've seen with every top tier criminal ever: Pablo Escobar, El Chapo, Riina.

This story is ridiculous but so is the idea of certain criminals being "sophisticated" because they were born in Sicily. They are all violent idiots they are just more protected in certain areas.

B. wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 4:40 pm The Sicilian mafia is under way more pressure than the US members. They can and do get hit with prison sentences for even talking to another member or associate and no law like that exists in the US. Then once they're in prison they can get hit with a 41-bis and are basically cut off from the entire world. They're under way more scrutiny and Sicilian members do flip all the time now. It's a bigger uphill battle for Italian LE though because the mafia is so ingrained and all over the island.

I do agree with you thought that "Sicilian" does not mean sophisticated and plenty of them are thuggish. A big difference with the Sicilians is they are more clannish and take the traditional mafia values more seriously. Lanni was from the Sicilian faction but it should be pointed out he doesn't appear to be Sicilian himself. Still he represents them and as you said it shows their group isn't worlds different from other NY mobsters.

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:37 am I can't see Gene becoming boss. Of course this is pure speculation on my part but I think the majority of the family would see gene getting the reins as going backwards. They're better off with the quiet Sicilian leadership. If Gene is in fact back in the fold they can placate him by giving him some power or autonomy, but there's much more sophisticated, low profile, guys that I have to believe the family would rather in charge. That Gotti name brings way too much heat and headlines, and after 35 years on the inside, there has to have been relationships, rapport, and good will made with guys and other families that Gene does not have at this point. Just my two cents.