THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Ambition is a killer...

[quote=Proletarian187 post_id=282308 time=1724372690 user_id=8432]
Kinda wish you guys were basement dwelling, unemployed Youtubers haha..
[/quote]

Yeah even I'm amazed that I'm not one.

Fucking autocorrect on my phone. Detaljer=details in swedish..

Of course. The first viewing I'm only able to absorb an overview of it all. It's on the second and third one I'm able to really get into the detaljer.

Thanks for the answer. I get that it's time consuming as hell. Kinda wish you guys were basement dwelling, unemployed Youtubers haha..

[quote=B. post_id=282303 time=1724370970 user_id=127]
Really happy to hear you've been able to enjoy multiple listens and I'm honored by the support.
[/quote]

+1.

No plans right now. I work a minimum 50+ hours every week, weekends being mandatory in my industry, and don't get home until 7:30 PM PST. Though Rick is also part of the West Coast faction, Angelo and Tony are East Coast and Tony's professional life gets very busy as well. It can be extremely hard to coordinate especially if there is a guest on top of that, and that's just scheduling the recording and not all the other aspects that go into planning it or the other stuff going on with our lives/interests.

I would love to get back into the swing of it and plan to hopefully sooner rather than later but you get the idea.

Really happy to hear you've been able to enjoy multiple listens and I'm honored by the support.

To the archeologists:

Any teasers regarding what subject and more importantly when there might be a new show? I'm on my third rewatch of the whole series as I write this, hehe.. The Philly epidode and the latest camorra-pod being my favorites.

Ah thanks fab

I was talking to a guy whose area of ​​expertise is San Francisco, it seems that Mike Gallo was from Piedmont, the Turin area. So it seems quite unlikely that he was a Camorrist, it's probably just the press that made a shortcut "Italian criminal = Camorra"

Generally, in abundance were most of the "black hand", camorristi? Considering the depletion starting in the 1910's - 20's. Would it be wrong to think there were more Campanian's in the U.S before Sicilian's given the number of possible societies throughout the country? For example Colosimo, Mike Gallo of San Francisco, Mauro of Pittsburgh, Boiardo. I forget when migrations happened.

The downfall of the black hand was because Cosa Nostra's system worked better or because the black hand camorristi were out numbered; or were black handers divided groups between the ethnicities of Campanian's and Calabrese

This connection is probably the single biggest lightbulb moment I've had concerning the formation of early LCN. Seeing the Camorra culture carry over into the more modern stuff is pretty cool. Seems like the whole Bergen crew acted like Cammorista. Really great episode guys

[quote=Aristotle123 post_id=279046 time=1717792256 user_id=8540]
Angelo Santino and Motorfab:
That's what I'd thought .And that's why its kind of mysterious how they unraveled as a connected national type network to the point that several of
them joined up with the mafia and others vanished.
That is,despite having maybe the later start in America than the mafia and the other self inflicted wounds because of bad choices.
Although I do believe some of these so called "black hand societies' were composed of mainly related,intermarried, and/or paesani members
But also,I'd always thought that some of the cells never went away,at least until maybe the 1960s or 1970s
[/quote]

You're right, some of them did indeed continue on well into the 80's. But I'm clocking two groups and one of them was subservient to the LCN. It wouldn't surprise me if there were others but I don't expect to find a hotbed. Most of these groups had their heyday in the 1900s-1920s. There's very little after the 1920s which the exception of Jersey that gives any indication that it was still going as strong as it was a decade prior. I'm referring to places scattered across the American northeast that were once major small cities like Fairmont, WV, Johnstown, PA, Youngstown, OH and so forth.

I don't think the camorra as a national society avoided scrutiny and continued on in the shadows. I think forcing people to join under the threat of harm or death is a bad business model and with upward mobility occurring in Italian communities in the 10s and 20s loosened their ability to inflict themselves like they did in Italy. Additionally, overt criminality is going to draw more attention than the more restrained mafia who more often than not attempts to blend in with the law rather than defy it. I just don't think the camorra was a good fit for 20th-century capitalistic America in how it was set up, in what was expected and how it functioned.

Angelo Santino and Motorfab:
That's what I'd thought .And that's why its kind of mysterious how they unraveled as a connected national type network to the point that several of
them joined up with the mafia and others vanished.
That is,despite having maybe the later start in America than the mafia and the other self inflicted wounds because of bad choices.
Although I do believe some of these so called "black hand societies' were composed of mainly related,intermarried, and/or paesani members
But also,I'd always thought that some of the cells never went away,at least until maybe the 1960s or 1970s

[quote=motorfab post_id=279037 time=1717775674 user_id=5417]
[quote=Aristotle123 post_id=279023 time=1717768246 user_id=8540]
Yes the cells had rules but were these cells ever as connected to each other as were the mafia families?
[/quote]

The Camorrist cells were definitely connected to each other, just as the Cosa Nostra borgate could be. We find well known names like Milano, Daniello, Filasto, Pedone, Sergi, Corbi, D'Urso, Racco, Musolino (and tons more) active across states like Virginia, Maryland, New York, New Jersey, California, Canada, and even Australia.
[/quote]

100%.

All these early "black hand societies" (the ones that actually were, and not newspaper hype) were not unorganized ruffians with no reach beyond their area. This is what makes Italian societies interesting, they are all local branches of something larger. They all have their internal squabbles but that doesn't change anything. The Camorra was 3x more structured and intricate than the mafia's organization was. They had written by-laws for everything, books serving as part lore part camorra instruction manual were distributed to keep these groups in tandem with one another. Read my article 4 and you can read the book that the camorra used to replicate its groups in America. See for yourself.

When it comes to the Calabrians it is important to remember that their society was still evolving, on one hand the guys in America were the predecessors to those who started calling the camorra the 'ndrangheta decades later, on the other hand it was still early camorra-esque- they were bounded purely through the sect and criminality, the implementation of family bloodlines which is an 'ndrangheta cornerstone didn't come about until decades later, they were heavily involved in slavery and prostitution and many of them had STDs from their association with that, including Capone. And he's not the only one. I think more Camorra bosses died from STDs than bullets. This is a window into the Camorra/'ndrangheta before prostitution was steadily phased out and women took on a different role.

[quote=Aristotle123 post_id=279023 time=1717768246 user_id=8540]
Yes the cells had rules but were these cells ever as connected to each other as were the mafia families?
[/quote]

The Camorrist cells were definitely connected to each other, just as the Cosa Nostra borgate could be. We find well known names like Milano, Daniello, Filasto, Pedone, Sergi, Corbi, D'Urso, Racco, Musolino (and tons more) active across states like Virginia, Maryland, New York, New Jersey, California, Canada, and even Australia.