THE BLACK HAND FORUM

cobra wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 1:43 pm - maybe i count wrong, but it looks d'arco mentioned 23 murders are ordered by amuso and casso
- i am wondering if the captains are suggesting such murders to them
- or they both are highly psychotic

B. wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 3:57 pm Another interesting thing is he says Jake Columbo was sponsored into the Luccheses by Joe Schiavo. In JD's write-up he says Columbo was a Genovese member who Valachi or Santantonio said transferred from the Colombo Family.

This adds the possibility that he actually transferred from the Luccheses. Columbo was from the Brownsville area so he would fit in with Schiavo and the Curiale/Various crew. He was Sicilian too like all of them.

B. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:06 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:43 am Interesting note on the Commission membership. Jimmy Fratianno had also claimed that John Scalish of Cleveland was on the Commission, along with Bruno and Zerilli, until it was reduced to just NYC and Chicago in ‘76 (though Scalish died that year anyway).

Freddy Santantonio also said he was told by his capodecina (Dongarra) that Scalish was on the Commission.

--

Thanks for posting the 302s, Al.

Snakes wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 12:04 pm

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:08 am

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:08 am I thought about that before. Would probably require having to track down one of the court cases and identifying a docket number corresponding to the 302s being shared in discovery. No documents filed prior to November 2004 are available to access on PACER unless you're a party in the case, so it would probably require going directly to the court to request the item. I've done that once before with an audio recording of testimony but it was a much more expensive than getting things through PACER and a bit of a hassle because at least some federal courts don't process payments online and require either a cheque or a money order.

The alternative would be doing a FOIA request but then it'd likely come back heavily redacted.

I’ve read that the court can send you trial transcripts for free if you directly go to the court where the trial took place
If you do identify the docket and the case number, it’s likely that they have other documents pertaining to the case at the court
The case number for D’Arco would pertain to the windows case, and the docket number would either be Vic Amuso’s docket or Vincent Gigante’s docket since he testified against them.

Why would an FOIA request come back as heavily redacted? Much of it is public knowledge and has been revealed within court through vast amounts of testimony. The 302s have also been the subject of cross examination various times publicly in court

They are two different bodies processing the request. The 302 as part of an FBI file is in their custody and they can redact how they please. If it is entered into record in the court, it typically isn't redacted although sometimes things like this are parts of sealed entries. It's dumb, but since when has government methodology made sense?

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:08 am

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:08 am I thought about that before. Would probably require having to track down one of the court cases and identifying a docket number corresponding to the 302s being shared in discovery. No documents filed prior to November 2004 are available to access on PACER unless you're a party in the case, so it would probably require going directly to the court to request the item. I've done that once before with an audio recording of testimony but it was a much more expensive than getting things through PACER and a bit of a hassle because at least some federal courts don't process payments online and require either a cheque or a money order.

The alternative would be doing a FOIA request but then it'd likely come back heavily redacted.

I’ve read that the court can send you trial transcripts for free if you directly go to the court where the trial took place
If you do identify the docket and the case number, it’s likely that they have other documents pertaining to the case at the court
The case number for D’Arco would pertain to the windows case, and the docket number would either be Vic Amuso’s docket or Vincent Gigante’s docket since he testified against them.

Why would an FOIA request come back as heavily redacted? Much of it is public knowledge and has been revealed within court through vast amounts of testimony. The 302s have also been the subject of cross examination various times publicly in court

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:08 am I thought about that before. Would probably require having to track down one of the court cases and identifying a docket number corresponding to the 302s being shared in discovery. No documents filed prior to November 2004 are available to access on PACER unless you're a party in the case, so it would probably require going directly to the court to request the item. I've done that once before with an audio recording of testimony but it was a much more expensive than getting things through PACER and a bit of a hassle because at least some federal courts don't process payments online and require either a cheque or a money order.

The alternative would be doing a FOIA request but then it'd likely come back heavily redacted.

PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:43 am Interesting note on the Commission membership. Jimmy Fratianno had also claimed that John Scalish of Cleveland was on the Commission, along with Bruno and Zerilli, until it was reduced to just NYC and Chicago in ‘76 (though Scalish died that year anyway).