THE BLACK HAND FORUM

PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:10 pm

SolarSolano wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:13 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:47 am I just checked and I don't think Hollinghead ever testified against Panozzo. If he did, he certainly got a raw deal because he is in prison until 2033 and not even up for parole until 2030. Shit, that's later than Panozzo! I would imagine that's because he pled out later than Panozzo but I honestly don't know.

I believe he gave information or wore a wire on and around Panozzo's crew - he also was wired up when meeting Joe Lopez the attorney and got a list of witnesses after Bobby was held saying "Bobby said you would know what to do with this."

I think Hollingshead's usefulness stopped with Panozzo - I was surprised nothing happened with the Spina guys as he used to work for their trucking business.

I suspect that Hollingshead was too insulated from the criminal operations of Vena or Spina to do any real damage to them. If he was actually present at the Zizzo/DiFronzo thing he may have only been there as Panozzo’s driver or bodyguard. Given the gravity of the situation around Zizzo at that time I have a hard time believing that a guy like Hollingshead was really privy to the actual discussion unless it was simply operational stuff regarding rackets. It’s always possible that there are things in the works that haven’t dropped yet but I have to believe that if Hollingshead had anything solid to offer on the guys above Bobby P the hammer would’ve dropped already.

BTW, does anyone have any info regarding Hollingshead’s criminal career before all this an how he came to get plugged with the Outfit? Is he Irish or hillbilly? Did he grow up by the Grand Ave Patch (there were a few hillbilly kids who came up around the Italians there)? My suspicion is that Hollingshead was a C-Note but I don’t know that for a fact (not like they put their government names on those old “compliment cards” lol).

SolarSolano wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:13 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:47 am I just checked and I don't think Hollinghead ever testified against Panozzo. If he did, he certainly got a raw deal because he is in prison until 2033 and not even up for parole until 2030. Shit, that's later than Panozzo! I would imagine that's because he pled out later than Panozzo but I honestly don't know.

I believe he gave information or wore a wire on and around Panozzo's crew - he also was wired up when meeting Joe Lopez the attorney and got a list of witnesses after Bobby was held saying "Bobby said you would know what to do with this."

I think Hollingshead's usefulness stopped with Panozzo - I was surprised nothing happened with the Spina guys as he used to work for their trucking business.

Snakes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:47 am I just checked and I don't think Hollinghead ever testified against Panozzo. If he did, he certainly got a raw deal because he is in prison until 2033 and not even up for parole until 2030. Shit, that's later than Panozzo! I would imagine that's because he pled out later than Panozzo but I honestly don't know.

SolarSolano wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:36 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:18 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:26 pm

Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:02 am Agreed that DiFronzo‘s level of influence post 2000 is still murky, but I think we have enough general evidence to show that he was still very influential, if not officially the top boss. I mainly thinking of the reports of Sarno kicking tribute up to him, Carparelli fearing retribution from him for potentially beating up an acquaintance of his, the meeting with Panozzo and others prior to Zizzos disappearance, and the meeting captured by Chuck Goudie with Marco D’Amico, his brothers, and others in 2009. that all certainly points to somebody who was still involved in my opinion.

What are the details of the meeting with Panozzo? I don’t remember hearing this. Where did it come out that they met? Also, who did Carparelli beat up?

Burnstein said there was federal surveillance of DiFronzo meeting in Chicago with Albert Vena, Tony Zizzo, Panozzo, and Jeff Hollingshead in the "weeks leading up to Zizzo's disappearance in 2006."

I think some of that was more conjecture - he was trying to make Hollingshead out to be a bigger threat than he was. I really don't think Hollingshead knew the DiFronzo's - certainly not his wife.

Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:20 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:26 pm

Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:02 am Agreed that DiFronzo‘s level of influence post 2000 is still murky, but I think we have enough general evidence to show that he was still very influential, if not officially the top boss. I mainly thinking of the reports of Sarno kicking tribute up to him, Carparelli fearing retribution from him for potentially beating up an acquaintance of his, the meeting with Panozzo and others prior to Zizzos disappearance, and the meeting captured by Chuck Goudie with Marco D’Amico, his brothers, and others in 2009. that all certainly points to somebody who was still involved in my opinion.

What are the details of the meeting with Panozzo? I don’t remember hearing this. Where did it come out that they met? Also, who did Carparelli beat up?

Carparelli was going to break the legs of a debtor. However, he thought (incorrectly) , that the debtor had a relationship with Difronzo, therefore he was worried about touching him. It was originally a sun times article, but here is a link to the one that I could find.

https://www.vfpress.news/articles/event ... urce-fair/

My point in bringing that up was to illustrate that Carparelli, a Cicero guy, still had respect/fear of Difronzo, so It is one of a few tiny hints that no nose was still involved.

With the modern day outfit, it seems to me the only real hints you can get are from the very few wire taps/recorded conversations that exist. You have to read between the lines a bit. For example, I always felt that Steve Mandell going to Albert Vena for permission to kill someone was a clue that the Elmwood Park and Grand Avenue factions had indeed been combined as has been suggested on this site. Historically, Mandell was an EP guy . However, in 2010 or so he went to vena for permission.

Snakes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:18 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:26 pm

Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:02 am Agreed that DiFronzo‘s level of influence post 2000 is still murky, but I think we have enough general evidence to show that he was still very influential, if not officially the top boss. I mainly thinking of the reports of Sarno kicking tribute up to him, Carparelli fearing retribution from him for potentially beating up an acquaintance of his, the meeting with Panozzo and others prior to Zizzos disappearance, and the meeting captured by Chuck Goudie with Marco D’Amico, his brothers, and others in 2009. that all certainly points to somebody who was still involved in my opinion.

What are the details of the meeting with Panozzo? I don’t remember hearing this. Where did it come out that they met? Also, who did Carparelli beat up?

Burnstein said there was federal surveillance of DiFronzo meeting in Chicago with Albert Vena, Tony Zizzo, Panozzo, and Jeff Hollingshead in the "weeks leading up to Zizzo's disappearance in 2006."

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:26 pm

Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:02 am Agreed that DiFronzo‘s level of influence post 2000 is still murky, but I think we have enough general evidence to show that he was still very influential, if not officially the top boss. I mainly thinking of the reports of Sarno kicking tribute up to him, Carparelli fearing retribution from him for potentially beating up an acquaintance of his, the meeting with Panozzo and others prior to Zizzos disappearance, and the meeting captured by Chuck Goudie with Marco D’Amico, his brothers, and others in 2009. that all certainly points to somebody who was still involved in my opinion.

What are the details of the meeting with Panozzo? I don’t remember hearing this. Where did it come out that they met? Also, who did Carparelli beat up?

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:26 pm

Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:02 am Agreed that DiFronzo‘s level of influence post 2000 is still murky, but I think we have enough general evidence to show that he was still very influential, if not officially the top boss. I mainly thinking of the reports of Sarno kicking tribute up to him, Carparelli fearing retribution from him for potentially beating up an acquaintance of his, the meeting with Panozzo and others prior to Zizzos disappearance, and the meeting captured by Chuck Goudie with Marco D’Amico, his brothers, and others in 2009. that all certainly points to somebody who was still involved in my opinion.

What are the details of the meeting with Panozzo? I don’t remember hearing this. Where did it come out that they met? Also, who did Carparelli beat up?

Coloboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:02 am Agreed that DiFronzo‘s level of influence post 2000 is still murky, but I think we have enough general evidence to show that he was still very influential, if not officially the top boss. I mainly thinking of the reports of Sarno kicking tribute up to him, Carparelli fearing retribution from him for potentially beating up an acquaintance of his, the meeting with Panozzo and others prior to Zizzos disappearance, and the meeting captured by Chuck Goudie with Marco D’Amico, his brothers, and others in 2009. that all certainly points to somebody who was still involved in my opinion.

Villain wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:10 am

Pete wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:34 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:45 am

Coloboy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:12 pm IMO….the guy remained the top guy until sometime between 2009-2012. After his appeal release in 94, seems he pretty much stopped directly involving himself in street rackets, and after 2000 or so it seems he pretty much only discussed outfit business with his brother as a filter. That’s a recipe for evading prosecution for sure. You can still call the major shots and get tribute, but not have to be directly involved in rackets.

The succession line after him is damn tough to piece together. Many sources say Joey A got that spot at least for a few years ( if he still doesn’t technically have it), and then?? Who knows.

A couple of months ago, we pieced together a succession line from various sources. Now, it should be noted that this does not include guys like Accardo who did not have a "street presence" but were still influential or had some level of authority over Outfit affairs. It could be argued that DiFronzo held that position for some period of time but his true level of influence post-2000 remains in question. Some of us have also postulated that Andriacchi is now in a similar position as DiFronzo and Accardo before him.

Succession line of Outfit bosses:
1986-1992: Sam Carlisi (imprisoned)
Street Boss 1989/1990 to 1992: John DiFronzo
1992 to 1997: John DiFronzo (stepped down)
Acting 1992/1993 to 1994: Joe Andriacchi
1997 to 2001: John Monteleone (died)
2001 to 2003: Al Tornabene (stepped down)
2003 to 2005: James Marcello (imprisoned)
2005 to 2010: Mike Sarno (imprisoned)
2010 to Present: Unknown

According to the spano court documents for the Cicero scam, spano identified monteleone as the boss starting in 1995

Thats right and thats why I previously mentioned that Monteleone or Andriacchi acted during one period. Spano belonged to the so-called south group and thats why he saw Monteleone as his personal boss and also boss of the Outfit (according to Spanos own words)

Pete wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:34 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:45 am

Coloboy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:12 pm IMO….the guy remained the top guy until sometime between 2009-2012. After his appeal release in 94, seems he pretty much stopped directly involving himself in street rackets, and after 2000 or so it seems he pretty much only discussed outfit business with his brother as a filter. That’s a recipe for evading prosecution for sure. You can still call the major shots and get tribute, but not have to be directly involved in rackets.

The succession line after him is damn tough to piece together. Many sources say Joey A got that spot at least for a few years ( if he still doesn’t technically have it), and then?? Who knows.

A couple of months ago, we pieced together a succession line from various sources. Now, it should be noted that this does not include guys like Accardo who did not have a "street presence" but were still influential or had some level of authority over Outfit affairs. It could be argued that DiFronzo held that position for some period of time but his true level of influence post-2000 remains in question. Some of us have also postulated that Andriacchi is now in a similar position as DiFronzo and Accardo before him.

Succession line of Outfit bosses:
1986-1992: Sam Carlisi (imprisoned)
Street Boss 1989/1990 to 1992: John DiFronzo
1992 to 1997: John DiFronzo (stepped down)
Acting 1992/1993 to 1994: Joe Andriacchi
1997 to 2001: John Monteleone (died)
2001 to 2003: Al Tornabene (stepped down)
2003 to 2005: James Marcello (imprisoned)
2005 to 2010: Mike Sarno (imprisoned)
2010 to Present: Unknown

According to the spano court documents for the Cicero scam, spano identified monteleone as the boss starting in 1995