THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Chucky wrote:

Pogo The Clown wrote:Camden used to be a hotbed for the Philly family but now it seems to be finished in terms of having any LCN in influece. Not surprising considering what a hole it is now. The last LCN related case there that I can recall was when Ralph Natale and Daniel Daidone bribed the mayor back in the mid/late 90s to try to get some government contracts. From what I remember despite the payoffs they never ended up getting anything in return.


Pogo

Camden was dead to them well before the 90s, Chester is somewhat similar, both areas went to shit around the same time.

Pogo The Clown wrote:Camden used to be a hotbed for the Philly family but now it seems to be finished in terms of having any LCN in influece. Not surprising considering what a hole it is now. The last LCN related case there that I can recall was when Ralph Natale and Daniel Daidone bribed the mayor back in the mid/late 90s to try to get some government contracts. From what I remember despite the payoffs they never ended up getting anything in return.


Pogo

B. wrote:A lot of the guys who were major players in the 1960s and close to Angelo Bruno were minor players or completely inactive by the time Scarfo took over. Some of them had small neighborhood operations, but there is a reason why their names didn't come up in the info from witnesses, and I'd guess Girgenti was barely involved in the rackets if at all by that time. The older members still socialized with the Scarfo players and attended family events like weddings, funerals, making ceremonies, and the Christmas party, but they weren't involved in family politics or trying to fish up new rackets or scams.

John Girgenti moved from Camden to South Philly and worked directly for Angelo Bruno in the numbers business. He was apparently being overworked and complained about his long gambling "shifts", which made its way onto an FBI report as gossip. He may have gotten a reputation as a complainer, not sure, but by the mid-1970s it seems like his role was alreayd decreasing. His dad died in the mid-70s which may have been a factor as well.

B. wrote:There was also another John Girgenti, a Camden-based bootlegger who was a possible early member of the Philly family. He killed a guy in the 1920s and claimed it was self-defense during a robbery. He "employed" Dominick Oliveto for a time. His age would match him up to be Joe the Gent's father but not sure.

Oh yeah, I had posted before about Bruno's son's wedding, where the Girgentis had a table with Pappy Ippolito and Louis Campbell, but what was interesting to me is Nicky Scarfo was said to have spent most of his time at their table even though he was originally seated with his uncles.

Borelli wrote:Just signed up over here. Was on another site for a couple of years and someone over there told me about here. I'm in the Philly area so, I probably won't be posting anywhere outside of those threads.

I don't have much to add on this topic but I can tell you that Al Pajamas was a very low-level fringe player and this went as far back as the late 60s early 70s. He wasnt around Scarfo at all; as you probably know he bugged out of town not long after Bruno was hit. As you know, Bruno let alot of shylock, gambling, and book happen without kicking up to him. Once Testa and Scarfo started the street tax, alot of old heads went underground. Pajamas collected for a couple of independents, who were with made guys. But, the made guys weren't known as hitters. He was also a book and a gambler, from what I am told. He was like Johnny Cupcakes; not violent.

I was pretty surprised when he came back in the 90s and actually shot Veasey. That's very different from how he was described to me years ago. I don't know him personally.


You guys do a hell of a lot of research, especially on the older stuff. It's really great. I read through a bunch of threads and there are some things I had heard about but never read about.Like for example, I had heard that Scarfo was volunteered to be sent up to NYC for the Gallo Bros but I never read about that. ANd I read all the philly books from the Scarfo era on up to present. I didn't read those 3 "Before Bruno" books yet. Does the historic stuff come from there or from Mary FerrelL? OR both?

I ask because I am curious about Joe the Gent and his son Johnny G. Any of you have any information on these guys?

You can check me out with some of the posters on here. I don't pretend to be some gangster toughguy and I'm no troll. i recognize their names and their post style. I'm Nickywhip on another board.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Chucky wrote:Caramandi was the key, DelGiorno was a mutt and would have sunk as the star witness, he had too much working against him.

Anyway, to your other discussion, John & Joe Chang were already pretty serious guys by the mid 80s, and Vinny Iannece was well on his way at that point, he was a leg breaker for his old man. I'd imagine Scarfo would bring his son in as well if he had lasted longer.