Attempt on Mike Ciancaglini

[Borelli]

Just signed up over here. Was on another site for a couple of years and someone over there told me about here. I'm in the Philly area so, I probably won't be posting anywhere outside of those threads.

I don't have much to add on this topic but I can tell you that Al Pajamas was a very low-level fringe player and this went as far back as the late 60s early 70s. He wasnt around Scarfo at all; as you probably know he bugged out of town not long after Bruno was hit. As you know, Bruno let alot of shylock, gambling, and book happen without kicking up to him. Once Testa and Scarfo started the street tax, alot of old heads went underground. Pajamas collected for a couple of independents, who were with made guys. But, the made guys weren't known as hitters. He was also a book and a gambler, from what I am told. He was like Johnny Cupcakes; not violent.

I was pretty surprised when he came back in the 90s and actually shot Veasey. That's very different from how he was described to me years ago. I don't know him personally.


You guys do a hell of a lot of research, especially on the older stuff. It's really great. I read through a bunch of threads and there are some things I had heard about but never read about.Like for example, I had heard that Scarfo was volunteered to be sent up to NYC for the Gallo Bros but I never read about that. ANd I read all the philly books from the Scarfo era on up to present. I didn't read those 3 "Before Bruno" books yet. Does the historic stuff come from there or from Mary FerrelL? OR both?

I ask because I am curious about Joe the Gent and his son Johnny G. Any of you have any information on these guys?

You can check me out with some of the posters on here. I don't pretend to be some gangster toughguy and I'm no troll. i recognize their names and their post style. I'm Nickywhip on another board.

Thanks.

Thanks.

[brianwellbrock]

The NJ state police had indictments on the Del, Faffy crew by the summer of 85 but waited for more evidence to get Scarfo and Leonetti. Also Crow had that fed around him for 18 months from what I recall. Turned out to not be irrelevant since he burried himself in the Rouse extortion and ended up turning but had the Rouse thing went differentely as well as Del not flipping that fed would of eventually had gotten close enough to start taking down the house of cards.

Maybe by '88 the fed heat would of started with Crow and Charlie White and others around them. So I would say Scarfo would of hardly lasted into the 90's but at the same time wouldnt of had nearly the whole crew getting 30 plus years.

[Handsome Stevie]

Nicky Whip is good peoples! Welcome buddy!

[TommyGambino]

Welcome Nicky.

[Rocco]

Caramandi was the key, DelGiorno was a mutt and would have sunk as the star witness, he had too much working against him.

Anyway, to your other discussion, John & Joe Chang were already pretty serious guys by the mid 80s, and Vinny Iannece was well on his way at that point, he was a leg breaker for his old man. I'd imagine Scarfo would bring his son in as well if he had lasted longer.

I think your 100% correct on Nicky Crow. He was the key Domino to fall creating the downfall of Scarfo's gang. Allot like Frank Coppa W/ Massimo's gang. Although it can all really be traced back to Scarfo's ways. Everyone was afraid they would be whacked after Testa was killed. Killing Testa was one of Scarfo's biggest mistakes. He clipped the kid to appease Chucky Merlino who he busted down to soldier anyways...

[Sol]

Just signed up over here. Was on another site for a couple of years and someone over there told me about here. I'm in the Philly area so, I probably won't be posting anywhere outside of those threads.

I don't have much to add on this topic but I can tell you that Al Pajamas was a very low-level fringe player and this went as far back as the late 60s early 70s. He wasnt around Scarfo at all; as you probably know he bugged out of town not long after Bruno was hit. As you know, Bruno let alot of shylock, gambling, and book happen without kicking up to him. Once Testa and Scarfo started the street tax, alot of old heads went underground. Pajamas collected for a couple of independents, who were with made guys. But, the made guys weren't known as hitters. He was also a book and a gambler, from what I am told. He was like Johnny Cupcakes; not violent.

I was pretty surprised when he came back in the 90s and actually shot Veasey. That's very different from how he was described to me years ago. I don't know him personally.


You guys do a hell of a lot of research, especially on the older stuff. It's really great. I read through a bunch of threads and there are some things I had heard about but never read about.Like for example, I had heard that Scarfo was volunteered to be sent up to NYC for the Gallo Bros but I never read about that. ANd I read all the philly books from the Scarfo era on up to present. I didn't read those 3 "Before Bruno" books yet. Does the historic stuff come from there or from Mary FerrelL? OR both?

I ask because I am curious about Joe the Gent and his son Johnny G. Any of you have any information on these guys?

You can check me out with some of the posters on here. I don't pretend to be some gangster toughguy and I'm no troll. i recognize their names and their post style. I'm Nickywhip on another board.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Welcome aboard the Black Hand Borelli, hope you enjoy your time and stay here.......Soliai

[B.]

Hey welcome Borelli.

I get my info on old Philly from MF and the Before Bruno books like you mentioned, but also newspaper archives, legal records, other LE reports, and sometimes there are opportunities to learn things in other ways but I try to only share things that can be confirmed or are highly probable based on circumstances and other info. I try to make it clear if I'm just theorizing or wondering about something.

As for the Girgentis, they were from Camden originally and Sicilian I believe. Joe Girgenti was a big player in his day, close to Reginelli, Oliveto, etc. Joe ran an illegal casino in Maple Shade in the 1940s that Thomas Girgenti and soldier Manny Gottobrio were involved with, among many others. Joe Girgenti apparently proposed a guy for membership who later became an informant, but the guy was blackballed from being made for being a former _____ (info redacted). I assume the guy was a former cop or prison guard.

[B.]

There was also another John Girgenti, a Camden-based bootlegger who was a possible early member of the Philly family. He killed a guy in the 1920s and claimed it was self-defense during a robbery. He "employed" Dominick Oliveto for a time. His age would match him up to be Joe the Gent's father but not sure.

Oh yeah, I had posted before about Bruno's son's wedding, where the Girgentis had a table with Pappy Ippolito and Louis Campbell, but what was interesting to me is Nicky Scarfo was said to have spent most of his time at their table even though he was originally seated with his uncles.

[Borelli]

Thanks for the welcomes everybody. And thanks for the reply B. I read your previous post about scarfo at the table. I know john girgenti was still alive in the early 80s when testa and scarfo came into power. Was he active though? I read in some other posts that info on the 70s is a little scarce.

There was also another John Girgenti, a Camden-based bootlegger who was a possible early member of the Philly family. He killed a guy in the 1920s and claimed it was self-defense during a robbery. He "employed" Dominick Oliveto for a time. His age would match him up to be Joe the Gent's father but not sure.

Oh yeah, I had posted before about Bruno's son's wedding, where the Girgentis had a table with Pappy Ippolito and Louis Campbell, but what was interesting to me is Nicky Scarfo was said to have spent most of his time at their table even though he was originally seated with his uncles.

[B.]

A lot of the guys who were major players in the 1960s and close to Angelo Bruno were minor players or completely inactive by the time Scarfo took over. Some of them had small neighborhood operations, but there is a reason why their names didn't come up in the info from witnesses, and I'd guess Girgenti was barely involved in the rackets if at all by that time. The older members still socialized with the Scarfo players and attended family events like weddings, funerals, making ceremonies, and the Christmas party, but they weren't involved in family politics or trying to fish up new rackets or scams.

John Girgenti moved from Camden to South Philly and worked directly for Angelo Bruno in the numbers business. He was apparently being overworked and complained about his long gambling "shifts", which made its way onto an FBI report as gossip. He may have gotten a reputation as a complainer, not sure, but by the mid-1970s it seems like his role was alreayd decreasing. His dad died in the mid-70s which may have been a factor as well.

[Borelli]

Hey thanks for this. I know he and his dad were more "racketeers" than gangsters. I have a personal interest in this guy for a couple reasons. I searched Mary Ferrell a few times but only came up with the memos listing him and his dad as members. Did you wiretaps transcripts or with him on it or just reporting?

I would like to read more about him. I just find it pretty time consuming with the Ferrell documents. I don't mind doing my own resarch but if you can post a link or recall the date range where you found him discussed I would appreciate it.

A lot of the guys who were major players in the 1960s and close to Angelo Bruno were minor players or completely inactive by the time Scarfo took over. Some of them had small neighborhood operations, but there is a reason why their names didn't come up in the info from witnesses, and I'd guess Girgenti was barely involved in the rackets if at all by that time. The older members still socialized with the Scarfo players and attended family events like weddings, funerals, making ceremonies, and the Christmas party, but they weren't involved in family politics or trying to fish up new rackets or scams.

John Girgenti moved from Camden to South Philly and worked directly for Angelo Bruno in the numbers business. He was apparently being overworked and complained about his long gambling "shifts", which made its way onto an FBI report as gossip. He may have gotten a reputation as a complainer, not sure, but by the mid-1970s it seems like his role was alreayd decreasing. His dad died in the mid-70s which may have been a factor as well.

[Pogo The Clown]

Camden used to be a hotbed for the Philly family but now it seems to be finished in terms of having any LCN in influece. Not surprising considering what a hole it is now. The last LCN related case there that I can recall was when Ralph Natale and Daniel Daidone bribed the mayor back in the mid/late 90s to try to get some government contracts. From what I remember despite the payoffs they never ended up getting anything in return.


Pogo

[Chucky]

Camden used to be a hotbed for the Philly family but now it seems to be finished in terms of having any LCN in influece. Not surprising considering what a hole it is now. The last LCN related case there that I can recall was when Ralph Natale and Daniel Daidone bribed the mayor back in the mid/late 90s to try to get some government contracts. From what I remember despite the payoffs they never ended up getting anything in return.


Pogo

Camden was dead to them well before the 90s, Chester is somewhat similar, both areas went to shit around the same time.

[B.]

Yeah, those towns are nightmares now.

Camden was where the real gangster element of the family came from and was the powerbase of the family. Many Camden guys ended up either being captains or members of the administration and then Camden abruptly fell away from the family when those guys passed away. What stands out to me about them is that few to none of them came from connected families, they were mostly guys who established themselves by being ruthless and aggressive street players. There is the Abruzzi connection too... not sure how that plays in, but a number of them were from there.

Borelli -- I can't find the doc about John Girgenti working for Bruno right now, but it was def on Mary Ferrell. Some of it was redacted but it sounded like a report from an informant. Sometimes those are just masked wiretaps, though. I am still not clear on the relationships between all of the Girgentis. Joseph's son John was definitely a member, but I have seen reports that list a John Sr. as a deceased member (100% this is the same one who was an early Camden player I mentioned earlier), but also a John Jr. as a member. I am not sure if they added Jr. to differentiate him from his grandfather of the same name, or if Joseph had a brother named John who was also a member. Thomas Girgenti was a associate of the family and was mostly likely Joseph's younger brother but not sure.

[phatmatress]

Camden used to be a hotbed for the Philly family but now it seems to be finished in terms of having any LCN in influece. Not surprising considering what a hole it is now. The last LCN related case there that I can recall was when Ralph Natale and Daniel Daidone bribed the mayor back in the mid/late 90s to try to get some government contracts. From what I remember despite the payoffs they never ended up getting anything in return.


Pogo

Camden was dead to them well before the 90s, Chester is somewhat similar, both areas went to shit around the same time.

chester always comes up as one of the highest murders per capita along with places like flynt michigan and Detroit and Baltimore etc etc... Chucky is there any relationship with Chester pa and west Chester pa? I know west Chester is a nice little town I've been too where ol bam margera hails from. I don't know much about Chester except for seeing it on those lists and that it's in your neck of the woods ya know where all the cow tippers and cow fuckers don't live


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