THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:31 pm Yeah. He gave Gravano the choice of staying on as Consigliere or being promoted to Official UnderBoss or Acting Boss if he (Gotti) were to go to prison.


Pogo

Stroccos wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:40 am

bronx wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:23 am He never plead to drugs. what bikers did sam deal with? agree most guys would have flipped after hearing gotti babble about murders ,point is sam killed to stay out of prison and talked to stay out of prison..sam was always for sam.he killed his wife's brother ,the real reason only sam knows

to bad for Gottis sake , the people peter gotti put on killing Sammy chickened out, because pete ended up in jail for life anyway , to bad gravano wasn't taken out in the process,

I meant post ratting and after he did his 5 years , when he was busted in Arizona , he dealt with bikers in arionza selling drugs. They didn't mind dealing with him even though he was a rat

Chris Christie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:20 am Joe Bonanno's definition of omerta was slightly more romantic: Never be the downfall of another man. There's an element of truth to this logic existing because members can and have spoken to law enforcement throughout the century. Never speaking about the mafia or informing on members doesn't include not divulging information on rivals or even street information to have a relationship that could come in handy later. It came out in the 60's that members were instructed never to talk to agents or something to that effect. It's on MF. But before, during and after, there have always been members who had relationships with law enforcement, that we as outsiders can look at and say, he was a dry snitch.

On one side you have the more dramatic Valachi/Gravanos, on the opposite side you have your Scarpas/Clementes, but in between is an entirely gray area of cooperation with LE. Bill Bonanno, Harry Riccobene are prime examples.

500YearReign wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:51 pm Wiseguys love to talk about their time in the can, and their most common form of advice to prospects is make yourself a shank right quick & don't hesitate to use it. That's how you do time.

500YearReign wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:12 pm Bronx some interesting points you raised, few questions for you:

Seeing a hypnotist for what exactly? That's usually to stop smoking or something.

I'm curious to know what Teddy heard that made him think that because obviously this had to have been before the Ravenite arrests. Do you recall the content or context. I read teddy's book along time ago but don't remember if or what he mentioned.

I do remember little about the brother in law but wasn't this very late in the game and after he already made the deal?

While in mcc you said he killed his friends who had drug problems or who he thought might rat... who is this referring to and did anyone actually get clipped on his order while in the mcc?....I'm not aware of that.

My take:
It's hard to believe he was in the life from a youngster making it all the way up to an underboss and somehow he is all of a sudden afraid of prison--- I mean come on he knows that is almost a guarantee in the life and more than at least 50% of the people he knew and dealt with had to have been convicts at some point in their lives. I'm not biting on that too quickly regardless of what teddy atlas says. I mean really what is he going to say good things about the guy after all is done?

I think Sammy felt like he was old school cosa nostra through and through, lived and operated smart and quietly like the old timers had taught him, had taken a lot of risks to put this thing together (overthrow of castellano/sicilians faction) and finally while at the pinnacle of it all he has to do life for a blowhard egomaniac moron... that is what he couldn't accept. And I'm sure he kept the people he liked and respected clear of indictments, the others he probably figured had f*cked him in one way or another or would have given time and opportunity. And finally do you think he really trusted that family to do the right thing by him and his own through a lifetime bid in the joint? I think he knew better and decided to not wait to see what he already knew to be true.

bronx wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:23 am He never plead to drugs. what bikers did sam deal with? agree most guys would have flipped after hearing gotti babble about murders ,point is sam killed to stay out of prison and talked to stay out of prison..sam was always for sam.he killed his wife's brother ,the real reason only sam knows