Debunking Arnold Rothstein

[motorfab]

I don't know much about Jewish organized crime, but Arnold Rothstein's name comes up quite often when we talk about it. But when I read something about Luciano or Costello or guys from that time, they say they all worked for him. I have a little trouble believing all of this stuff. If I have no doubt that a guy like Lansky could have worked for him, I have a hard time seeing Luciano working for Rothstein. So my question is: what is the part of reality in all these stories (although I suspect that it is thin) and what was Rothstein's role in organized crime?

[aleksandrored]

Interesting question, we really always see Rothstein as mentor to several gangsters, the only thing I found interesting about him (but I haven't had a chance to buy yet) is the book: "The Big Bankroll: The Life And Times Of Arnold Rothstein", which my attention is that it says that the author interviewed Lucky Luciano to make the book, I just don't know to what extent all of this is true.

[Angelo Santino]

Same. All I know of Arnold Rothstein was that he fixed the world series. Boardwalk Empire kinda piqued my interest. Looking him up on wikipedia it implies his death carried major underworld implications. Not sure how accurate that is or isn't.

In the back of my mind I recall a conversation I had a decade ago with someone who said Lepke or Seigel and not Lansky was Rothstein's successor. I don't know to what extent the Jews were organized or even if they had successors like the mafia has. According to Fratianno, Dragna or Roselli told him that Lansky has "his own family" structured like the Italians composed of Jews.

Any clarification would be great.

[Pogo The Clown]

Yeah, fuckin' terrible. He got hit in his own hotel room.


Pogo

[Angelo Santino]

Yeah, fuckin' terrible. He got hit in his own hotel room.


Pogo

Do you recall the old site Organized Crime Syndicates, early 2000s? Do you remember Nino from Philly? He and I used to always laugh about that site, he DMed me on AOL to laugh, how it listed "Mexican American Gangs" with a sombrero as a photo (Nino: "I don't think any Mexican gangbangers wear a sombrero" or the category titled "Tough Jews" for their Jewish gangster section. For some reason, he and I, found that hilarious and would constantly joke about it: "Gotta go, one Tough Jew is coming over, gotta put on my sombrero," shit like that. When Nino sent me his photo I edited it and gave him a sombrero and one of those blankets with a hole cut out along with him holding a plate of tacos and suggested he send that to the site as a replacement. He said "fuck that" and started laughing. Good times. I used to talk to a Cali out in Scranton, his neighbor or something was DeNaples, I hope he's doing ok.

[Pogo The Clown]

As a matter of fact I do remember that. That site was a great resource for OC. Granted with hindsight and more information coming out we know that not all of their infor was accurate but at the time it was great.


Pogo

[Angelo Santino]

As a matter of fact I do remember that. That site was a great resource for OC. Granted with hindsight and more information coming out we know that not all of their infor was accurate but at the time it was great.


Pogo

Yes, it was a good site. Just the main page was funny, I didn't notice it until Nino brought it up. I seen the sombrero and didn't think anything of it, it was only when he brought it up that I started laughing. The moderator at the time was a "Roy DeMeo" who was actually a woman. Nino was talking on AIM to her and made reference to the stuff thinking it was funny and she allegedly flipped out and took great offense, then the next day she PMs him and says the site owners want it to stay as it is. Nino was just busting balls.

[Pogo The Clown]

If I remember right the site got taken down because one of the people they listed as a criminal either threatened (or actually brought) legal action. Forgot who it was.


Pogo

[Villain]

I don't know much about Jewish organized crime, but Arnold Rothstein's name comes up quite often when we talk about it. But when I read something about Luciano or Costello or guys from that time, they say they all worked for him. I have a little trouble believing all of this stuff. If I have no doubt that a guy like Lansky could have worked for him, I have a hard time seeing Luciano working for Rothstein. So my question is: what is the part of reality in all these stories (although I suspect that it is thin) and what was Rothstein's role in organized crime?

I dont know shit about Rothstein but I do remember someone saying back in the days that he had nothing to do with the world series and that his murder was sanctioned or something like that....

[Angelo Santino]

If I remember right the site got taken down because one of the people they listed as a criminal either threatened (or actually brought) legal action. Forgot who it was.


Pogo

That was the earlier site "That Life." They identified Joe Loose as the boss before the FBI did prompting his attorney to send a cease and desist. Used the Hell's Angels logo which is copyrighted. There was also some Haitian dancer whom they labled a murdered drug dealer which prompted harsh blowback from the family who provided proof that there was no evidence or suspicion of any drug dealing. To be the fair, the owner of the site asked the person who wrote it where he got the info from and the person couldn't answer.

[UTC]

I don't know much about Jewish organized crime, but Arnold Rothstein's name comes up quite often when we talk about it. But when I read something about Luciano or Costello or guys from that time, they say they all worked for him. I have a little trouble believing all of this stuff. If I have no doubt that a guy like Lansky could have worked for him, I have a hard time seeing Luciano working for Rothstein. So my question is: what is the part of reality in all these stories (although I suspect that it is thin) and what was Rothstein's role in organized crime?

I dont know shit about Rothstein but I do remember someone saying back in the days that he had nothing to do with the world series and that his murder was sanctioned or something like that....

There are several theories on this. One is he was asked, declined, but profited from inside info anyway. He was a seminal figure in the illegal booze and narcotics rackets though. I think it's fair to say Rothstein was somewhat a mentor to Luciano, and thereby had some influence with him.

[CabriniGreen]

I don't know much about Jewish organized crime, but Arnold Rothstein's name comes up quite often when we talk about it. But when I read something about Luciano or Costello or guys from that time, they say they all worked for him. I have a little trouble believing all of this stuff. If I have no doubt that a guy like Lansky could have worked for him, I have a hard time seeing Luciano working for Rothstein. So my question is: what is the part of reality in all these stories (although I suspect that it is thin) and what was Rothstein's role in organized crime?

Why? Exactly?



I tend to not look at it as an Italian working for a jew...

( side question, is this a preposterous thing? Jews were in the streets then, just like the Irish..)

More like ambitious youngsters working for the top gambler- narcotics smuggler- liquor IMPORTER of the time.......

Having connections to British and or Scottish liquor merchants, and Chinese opium suppliers in the 20s would have had very little to do with the Mafia networks of Sicily.

It was just BUSINESS.... nothing more..... Being close to Rothstien taught them how to smuggle, I think basically, liquor, and then narcotics.

[Angelo Santino]

I don't know much about Jewish organized crime, but Arnold Rothstein's name comes up quite often when we talk about it. But when I read something about Luciano or Costello or guys from that time, they say they all worked for him. I have a little trouble believing all of this stuff. If I have no doubt that a guy like Lansky could have worked for him, I have a hard time seeing Luciano working for Rothstein. So my question is: what is the part of reality in all these stories (although I suspect that it is thin) and what was Rothstein's role in organized crime?

Why? Exactly?



I tend to not look at it as an Italian working for a jew...

( side question, is this a preposterous thing? Jews were in the streets then, just like the Irish..)

More like ambitious youngsters working for the top gambler- narcotics smuggler- liquor IMPORTER of the time.......

Having connections to British and or Scottish liquor merchants, and Chinese opium suppliers in the 20s would have had very little to do with the Mafia networks of Sicily.

It was just BUSINESS.... nothing more..... Being close to Rothstien taught them how to smuggle, I think basically, liquor, and then narcotics.

Boardwalk Empire, Mobsters and most films about that era, imply that these gangs are top heavy organizations with a boss surrounded by flunkies who's job is to be on call and perform tasks, it paints a picture that these groups would be against one of its members "going out and making money." You see it always play out where the Boss calls the guy in and accuses him of betrayal. This is not grounded in reality. Then and now, the Mafia was diversified and the boss was your boss in terms of internal mafia affairs, and barring a few exceptions (rules against this or that), they don't generally tell their members how to make money, they just want their cut.

The Mafiosi have changed but the Mafia operandi has remained the consistent. In the last 50 years we've heard of associations between members and Latin Kings, Bloods, Outlaw MC's etc. It's no different than their grandfathers dealing with the Irish, Jews and Russians.

And when it comes to making money, the more people you know the more likely it becomes, which is why it made sense to be pragmatic.

[CabriniGreen]

I figured they just learned all they could from the guy, and then killed him and took over his rackets and contacts.

All the books and articles I've read about Rothstein paint him as a World class criminal, but never a "Gang boss", if that makes any sense.

Was there a Rothstein GANG?

[Villain]

I don't know much about Jewish organized crime, but Arnold Rothstein's name comes up quite often when we talk about it. But when I read something about Luciano or Costello or guys from that time, they say they all worked for him. I have a little trouble believing all of this stuff. If I have no doubt that a guy like Lansky could have worked for him, I have a hard time seeing Luciano working for Rothstein. So my question is: what is the part of reality in all these stories (although I suspect that it is thin) and what was Rothstein's role in organized crime?

I dont know shit about Rothstein but I do remember someone saying back in the days that he had nothing to do with the world series and that his murder was sanctioned or something like that....

There are several theories on this. One is he was asked, declined, but profited from inside info anyway. He was a seminal figure in the illegal booze and narcotics rackets though. I think it's fair to say Rothstein was somewhat a mentor to Luciano, and thereby had some influence with him.

I agree since there were both legit and criminal guys at the time who probably received some info and bet their money on the world series, and if the story regarding narcotics and booze is true, than its quite possible that guys like Lepke, Lansky and Bugsy really inherited his connections...and the Luciano connection comes through his underlings...and if that really happened, than its possible that he was eliminated by his own crew...like in most cases during those days