Patriarcas or Philly?Whos the most powerful today?

[roydemeo]

Question for Pogo and the others Mob experts:

Between the Patriarcas and Philly,who is the most powerful today for active made men,controlled territories,rackets etc?

[Targenmantarian]

I think Philly is far more intact.

There's some evidence that the Patriarcas are basically done and have splintered into three loose groups or gangs as opposed to a top down family with a traditional structure. Providence seems to be in it's last legs with few active members left and no one new being brought in for some time unless we haven't heard of it.

I thought it was Cheeseman
Costa
And Providence (Guglielmetti)

That said Philly has a structure but they don't have many lucrative rackets. I don't know if they have any large scale union control. I think they just do gambling, stolen goods, and drugs.

[Wiseguy]

Question for Pogo and the others Mob experts:

Between the Patriarcas and Philly,who is the most powerful today for active made men,controlled territories,rackets etc?

Up to about 2010 or 2011, I would have said New England. They were at least as active and more diversified. But New England doesn't seem to have replenished itself as quickly as Philadelphia has. So Philadelphia is probably in better shape now. But Philadelphia seems to have a very limited economic base.

I think Philly is far more intact.

There's some evidence that the Patriarcas are basically done and have splintered into three loose groups or gangs as opposed to a top down family with a traditional structure. Providence seems to be in it's last legs with few active members left and no one new being brought in for some time unless we haven't heard of it.

I thought it was Cheeseman
Costa
And Providence (Guglielmetti)

That said Philly has a structure but they don't have many lucrative rackets. I don't know if they have any large scale union control. I think they just do gambling, stolen goods, and drugs.

New England is about to the point where it could be called the Boston family, since two-thirds of the remaining membership is based there. Philadelphia doesn't have any significant union involvement and haven't since HEREU Local 54 30 years ago.

[Targenmantarian]

Question for Pogo and the others Mob experts:

Between the Patriarcas and Philly,who is the most powerful today for active made men,controlled territories,rackets etc?

Up to about 2010 or 2011, I would have said New England. They were at least as active and more diversified. But New England doesn't seem to have replenished itself as quickly as Philadelphia has. So Philadelphia is probably in better shape now.

I think Philly is far more intact.

There's some evidence that the Patriarcas are basically done and have splintered into three loose groups or gangs as opposed to a top down family with a traditional structure. Providence seems to be in it's last legs with few active members left and no one new being brought in for some time unless we haven't heard of it.

I thought it was Cheeseman
Costa
And Providence (Guglielmetti)

That said Philly has a structure but they don't have many lucrative rackets. I don't know if they have any large scale union control. I think they just do gambling, stolen goods, and drugs.

New England is about to the point where it could be called the Boston family, since two-thirds of the remaining membership is based there. Philadelphia doesn't have any significant union involvement and haven't since HEREU Local 54 30 years ago.

Yeah. When was the last time a guy in his 30s or 40s got made into Providence?

Early 90s I'd assume. They are on their last legs in RI. Unless there's guys we know nothing about.

[Bklyn21]

I'll go with Philly on this . RI/New England doesn't seem to have made anyone , Or any young blood which I don't even think they have , Along with a few high level Informants I don't see anything good coming out of New England . At least Philly has had an infusion of guys out of prison and seem to have a following of relatively younger guys and made people over the last few years and haven't really been touched by any big indictments as they keep saying were, Are coming down and gonna decimate everything etc etc....

[Targenmantarian]

I'll go with Philly on this . RI/New England doesn't seem to have made anyone , Or any young blood which I don't even think they have , Along with a few high level Informants I don't see anything good coming out of New England . At least Philly has had an infusion of guys out of prison and seem to have a following of relatively younger guys and made people over the last few years and haven't really been touched by any big indictments as they keep saying were, Are coming down and gonna decimate everything etc etc....

I think Philly will get wrecked at some point. And lose everyone. And then the 5 guys who are left will just make 25 or 30 new guys over 10 years and the family will stay intact.

You literally cannot destroy an entity that refuses to die. That's them. They were the laughingstock for decades but they actually kinda won with their "back to the caves" mentality.

[Targenmantarian]

Their hustles are so basic too that they can't be eradicated.

Sophisticated semi legit stuff is awesome but it's also easy to destroy.

Selling drugs, robbing unaffiliated crooks, bookmaking and sharking and stealing shit from businesses, trailers, and people is impossible to stop. The next guy is always capable of doing it.

Plus the older guys are all successful contractors and house flippers/landlords so again it's very two plus two equals four basic stuff that is so low to the ground it's hard to interdict or barely worth the effort.

If they hadn't killed so many people and didn't have like 6 or more killers who have never done a day just walking around in their crews then the feds would give them a pass at this point. Once those guys all get jammed they'll probably get 25 years to rebuild in peace cause none of their rackets are disruptive at all.

[stubbs]

It’s interesting that Philly never seemed to have guys too entrenched in controlling garbage or construction, or am I wrong about that? They always seemed to be doing only blue collar crimes, none of the white collar Genovese stuff... (obviously some but not a huge amount). But tell me if I’m off base and wrong.

[Targenmantarian]

It’s interesting that Philly never seemed to have guys too entrenched in controlling garbage or construction, or am I wrong about that? They always seemed to be doing only blue collar crimes, none of the white collar Genovese stuff... (obviously some but not a huge amount). But tell me if I’m off base and wrong.

In their golden era of Bruno and early Scarfo they had the Teamsters, the Roofers, and the gaming associated unions in AC. So maybe not NYC sized stuff but they had some super lucrative ones relative to their size.

By the time Scarfo was done they were back to the Stone age.

[Targenmantarian]

Merlino was out there selling box fans and watches and taxing weirdos like Luisi and crash dummies like Vetere for one key of coke that got stepped on 3x and was being sold to an FBI agent.

Angelina had baby formula. So they were knockaround guy city status by the 90s.

Previte was a rat for sure and an insane induction decision.. But his vivid descriptions of how bad they were at making money are hilarious. Things stabilized with Ligambi but the late 90s era wolf Crew would have been better off just working dayjobs and pooling their cash after their paychecks came. They were epically bad at earning.

[johnny_scootch]

They are on their last legs in RI. Unless there's guys we know nothing about.

There are always guys we don't know about.

[TommyNoto]

Their hustles are so basic too that they can't be eradicated.

Sophisticated semi legit stuff is awesome but it's also easy to destroy.

Selling drugs, robbing unaffiliated crooks, bookmaking and sharking and stealing shit from businesses, trailers, and people is impossible to stop. The next guy is always capable of doing it.

Plus the older guys are all successful contractors and house flippers/landlords so again it's very two plus two equals four basic stuff that is so low to the ground it's hard to interdict or barely worth the effort.

If they hadn't killed so many people and didn't have like 6 or more killers who have never done a day just walking around in their crews then the feds would give them a pass at this point. Once those guys all get jammed they'll probably get 25 years to rebuild in peace cause none of their rackets are disruptive at all.

Philly likely also has a large poker machine network in PA and South Jersey/ DE. Them and the Westside very likely bumped heads in their gambling rackets some years ago ( same with Perna crew) but likely worked it out given Merlino and them continued to earn in other rackets.

Don’t sleep on those poker machines , they are real steady $ and guys will get violent over losing a bar. In Newark they are everywhere, real DL in back corner of bars lol. Wouldn’t be shocked if Philly gambling / sharking interests in NJ is their core $ maker today. Suburb internet gambling has allowed good bookmakers to get to a monster scale.

[Targenmantarian]

They are on their last legs in RI. Unless there's guys we know nothing about.

There are always guys we don't know about.

Well there'd need to be a few of them. Cause it's single digits up there otherwise and no one's under 60 something.

[Targenmantarian]

Their hustles are so basic too that they can't be eradicated.

Sophisticated semi legit stuff is awesome but it's also easy to destroy.

Selling drugs, robbing unaffiliated crooks, bookmaking and sharking and stealing shit from businesses, trailers, and people is impossible to stop. The next guy is always capable of doing it.

Plus the older guys are all successful contractors and house flippers/landlords so again it's very two plus two equals four basic stuff that is so low to the ground it's hard to interdict or barely worth the effort.

If they hadn't killed so many people and didn't have like 6 or more killers who have never done a day just walking around in their crews then the feds would give them a pass at this point. Once those guys all get jammed they'll probably get 25 years to rebuild in peace cause none of their rackets are disruptive at all.

Philly likely also has a large poker machine network in PA and South Jersey/ DE. Them and the Westside very likely bumped heads in their gambling rackets some years ago ( same with Perna crew) but likely worked it out given Merlino and them continued to earn in other rackets.

Don’t sleep on those poker machines , they are real steady $ and guys will get violent over losing a bar. In Newark they are everywhere, real DL in back corner of bars lol. Wouldn’t be shocked if Philly gambling / sharking interests in NJ is their core $ maker today. Suburb internet gambling has allowed good bookmakers to get to a monster scale.

And joker poker is low to the ground. It's basic and grimy. And it's usually a state case.

The vending machines of gambling. They pay.

And yeah Philly has always had a plethora of good bookies. Micali was a genius at that stuff. He was Nicodemos golden goose. And the degenerate gamblers of Delco and South Jersey will always be there.

They just aren't going to do any multi zillion dollar internet fraud stuff.

But they don't need to.

Joker poker
Booking
Online booking
Gambling
Card games
Sharking
Robbing drug dealers
Taxing drug dealers
Selling drugs themselves
Stealing stuff and reselling it
Owning and flipping city property

These will never die. They have a good ground game.

[Pogo The Clown]

Back in 2003 LE had Providence down to 12 members. They released a list of names. They were


Luigi "Baby Shacks" Manocchio, 74
Frank "Bobo" Marrapese, 60 (in prison)
Robert "Bobby" Deluca, 58 (in prison)
Eddie Lato, 56 (in prison)
Rudolph Sciarra, 79
Anthony "The Saint" St. Laurent, 62 (in prison)
Patty Galea, 60
Vito Deluca, 59
Alfred "Chippy" Scivola, 62
Matthew Gugliemetti, 55
William "Blackjack" Delsanto, 60
Raymond J. "Junior" Patriarca, 58


In 2011 LE said there were only 8 members residing in Rhode Island. So not counting the guy's in prison. The names released were


Joseph Ruggiero
Raymond J. "Junior" Patriarca
Rudolph "Rudy" Sciarra
Pasquale Galea
Vito DeLuca
William "Blackjack" Delsanto
Joseph Achille
Robert "Bobby" Deluca


In addition they said that Providence was decimated and that of these 8 members only 1 or 2 were still active. Counting the members in prison Providence had 14 made members total in 2011.


So Achille and Ruggiero would have been made in the 2003-2011 period (Achille was indicted as a member in February 2005).


Since 2011 Bobby DeLuca flipped and Achille, Galea, Marrapese, Sciarra, Scivola and St. Laurent have died.


Pogo