Commission Question

[BeatiPaoli]

To Everyone: I have been confused at times with regard to the membership of the Commission in the later years of its existence (late 50's, throughout the 60's). I realized this subject has been detailed several times here on this Forum, but I would like to ask one pointed question: did Raymond L. S. Patriarca ever serve on the Commission during the 1960's? I do not see his name consistently mentioned in any of the likely references, resources, or Forum threads, but on a chart of the U.S. Cosa Nostra as it existed in 1963, prepared in 1976 by Ralph Salerno for the Senate Subcommittee investigating the Kennedy assassination, he was listed as a member of the Commission (in 1963). Again, while I have reading sparingly of his membership on the Commission, I don't believe his membership was ever definitively confirmed, EXCEPT in this particular 1976 chart. I have a hard time believing Salerno, with his reputation, would include a person who he could not back up with some level of credible evidence from some source somewhere.

I would appreciate any and all feedback.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

[thekiduknow]

There's an FBI file from 62 that lists Patriarca as a Commission member

[maxiestern11]

During the 1950-60’s era, LE said commission size would vary, but that 9-12 members was possible and sometimes utilized depending upon the situation at hand. For instance, the early 60’s era you speak of was the Gallo-Profaci War era. Ray Patriarca was indeed a Steady commission member. He was integral to negotiations at that time relative to a “peace” settlement between warring factions.(remember Nicky Bianco).
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Also, REMEMBER that “automatically” ALL bosses across the country ARE commission members but for functionality and practicality only typically 6-9 actually sat!
-
But as needed any boss could be called upon to execute commission business...... (and for that matter any “amico nostro”!
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Buffalo
The NYC Five
Chicago
Detroit
Cleveland
NE
?

[HairyKnuckles]

No. Patriarca was not a Commission member.

[maxiestern11]

Patriarca didn’t participate in those Gallo-Profaci Commission meetings at that time?

[Confederate]

During the 1950-60’s era, LE said commission size would vary, but that 9-12 members was possible and sometimes utilized depending upon the situation at hand. For instance, the early 60’s era you speak of was the Gallo-Profaci War era. Ray Patriarca was indeed a Steady commission member. He was integral to negotiations at that time relative to a “peace” settlement between warring factions.(remember Nicky Bianco).
-
Also, REMEMBER that “altomatically” ALL bosses across the country ARE commission members but for functionality and practicality only typically 6-9 actually sat!
-
But as needed any boss could be called upon to execute commission business...... (and for that matter any “amico nostro”!
-
Buffalo
The NYC Five
Chicago
Detroit
Cleveland
NE
?

I thought at any given time there were no more than 9 Commission members.
There was always the New York 5 & Chicago (Who were allied with Genovese)
The other 3 would sometimes rotate? No?
Wasn't Philly in that rotation?

[maxiestern11]

During the 1950-60’s era, LE said commission size would vary, but that 9-12 members was possible and sometimes utilized depending upon the situation at hand. For instance, the early 60’s era you speak of was the Gallo-Profaci War era. Ray Patriarca was indeed a Steady commission member. He was integral to negotiations at that time relative to a “peace” settlement between warring factions.(remember Nicky Bianco).
-
Also, REMEMBER that “altomatically” ALL bosses across the country ARE commission members but for functionality and practicality only typically 6-9 actually sat!
-
But as needed any boss could be called upon to execute commission business...... (and for that matter any “amico nostro”!
-
Buffalo
The NYC Five
Chicago
Detroit
Cleveland
NE
?

I thought at any given time there were no more than 9 Commission members.
There was always the New York 5 & Chicago (Who were allied with Genovese)
The other 3 would sometimes rotate? No?
Wasn't Philly in that rotation?

That is correct!... and Philly had a seat at one time.
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Buffalo and Cleveland also I believe.
- now, don’t get me wrong, from year to year, era to era, I do think it changed. In the early 1960’s I’d thought Patriarca was an active commission member (if only for the Gallo war years)..... to help smooth the situation in Brooklyn. HK could be right in that NE may not have been “permanent”! But nonetheless I do know he was integral in that era.
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IMO..... early on, the 1930’s-40’s, I feel the Commission could have even had a larger “sitting” core membership. But that’s only speculation on my behalf.
——
1945-65: commission members:
Five Families
Buffalo
Chicago
Philadelphia
Detroit.......... that’s 9 members right there!
——-
(Possibles): or “temporary” members as needed:
New England
Cleveland (Milano)
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As you can see it’s a “shifting” dynamic, largely depending who was in power, who’s strong, who’s aligned with whom, if they were working the LV casino’s at the time, etc.......
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I could be mistaken because I do not claim to be all knowing on this subject (it has a murky history at best)!
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But this is how I understood the “commission” or top “hierarchy” to be!
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And in later years because interstate families didn’t have the same connections and businesses going with each other, over time it basically became a 5-6 family affair. With Chicago handling a sort of “mini commission” for any crews west of them

[Wiseguy]

With the benefit of hindsight, it appears several families were misidentified over the years as having seats on the Commission.

According to Capeci, from the time it was formed until 1961, the Commission consisted of the bosses of the 5 New York families, Buffalo, and Chicago.

In 1961, Angelo Bruno from Philadelphia and Joseph Zerilli from Detroit were given seats on the Commission.

Capeci said it was also in the 1960s when the Outfit started missing more every-5-year Commission meetings as the ties between the families began to frey and there were less mutual interests.

When Maggadino died in 1974, Buffalo lost its seat. When Zerilli died in 1977, Detroit lost its seat. And when Bruno was killed in 1980, Philadelphia lost its seat.

By that point, the Commission was essentially a New York enterprise. The Genovese had oversight of certain eastern families. The Outfit continued to have general oversight of things West of Chicago.

[Pogo The Clown]

There is conflicting info on when those families lost their seat. Frattiano recalls a conversation with Johnny Roselli during the mid 1970s where they talk about the Commission downsizing with Detroit, Philly and Cleveland all losing their seat at the same time. Don't recall if they mentioned Buffalo or not but it is Frattianos book.


I recall it being posted here that Nick Gentile also claimed Cleveland had a seat in the early days. However Bonanno made no mention of this and he talked extensively about the Commission and its formation. But then again Frattiano also mentioned Cleveland having a seat so who knows.


Pogo

[TwoPiece]

kind of unrelated but i was wondering if any of you knew who patriarca sr was originally made with? i've read it was in nyc but it doesn't say which family.

[MightyDR]

kind of unrelated but i was wondering if any of you knew who patriarca sr was originally made with? i've read it was in nyc but it doesn't say which family.

According to Patriarca (bug in his office during the 60s), when he got out of prison in 1946, he was a member of an NYC family. Then Philip Buccola wanted him transferred back to Boston, implying he was originally in that family. Doesn't say which NYC family he was in though.
https://www.golocalprov.com/patriarca-p ... Paid-Off-S

[BeatiPaoli]

To Everyone: IIRC, I read somewhere that Patriarca's underboss, Henry Tameleo, was originally a made member of the Bonanno Family. I also remember about that time that I read Patriarca was originally made into a New York Family, but it was not the same as Tameleo. I believe it may have been Profaci, but I could be wrong about this part.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

[maxiestern11]

To Everyone: IIRC, I read somewhere that Patriarca's underboss, Henry Tameleo, was originally a made member of the Bonanno Family. I also remember about that time that I read Patriarca was originally made into a New York Family, but it was not the same as Tameleo. I believe it may have been Profaci, but I could be wrong about this part.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

Well he and NE were represented for years by Joe Profaci and later Joe Colombo on commission business. Maybe another reason why maybe he installed Nicky Bianco into the Gallo-Profaci conflict to help mediate.

[JIGGS]

Trafficante never sat on the Commission?

Who repersented Chicago in a meeting of the Commission? The Boss? Someone else?

JIGGS

[JeremyTheJew]

Trafficante never sat on the Commission?

Who repersented Chicago in a meeting of the Commission? The Boss? Someone else?

JIGGS

Genovese.

As well as there has been said to be a "West Coast Commision" by Lonardo but i have never heard anything else pther then Chi runs wverything West.