What’s left of the mob nationally?

[maxiestern11]

Question for the forum!..... I’d like to know everyone’s thoughts on what’s left! ......of families throughout the country. I know there have been plenty of discussions in past years on this topic. But as of today, July 9, 2019, what is the “REAL” state of affairs on LCN in America!
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I’d say there are probably, give or take, approximately 12-14 fully active and functioning groups (although admittedly reduced in size and strength) in America today:
The NYC Five....of course
New Jersey
Philadelphia
New England
Buffalo/Montreal-Canada
Detroit
Chicago.........hanging by thread
Milwaukee ?.....
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After that, (in my opinion), the rest or whatever is left of the rest, probably constitute what could be categorized as glorified “crews” or a single “regime”, if even that.... not a full true “borgata” in the sense that we think of it as.
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There are of course, many “cells” for lack of a better word, operating throughout Canada (Toronto, etc), representing many families back in Calabria. And I believe (IMO) that there are also some, if not many, such groups operating in the NY-NJ area, South Florida, maybe Philly, etc., strategically placed, that have not yet been exposed or identified.....But I’m talking about the “Traditional” 24-26 original LCN families that operated in the U.S., not “Italy based” groups like the N’drangheta, Camorra, etc., who recently came here.
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But as far as Cleveland, Tampa, Pittston, maybe Los Angelos or St. Louis and other such cities that years ago had a formal family structure, now have but a few single guys left (maybe 1-2 made men, and some associates), if anything, “just doing their thing”, without any central command, or kicking up or actually organized in any real fashion.
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So what’s actually out there??

[PHL_Mob]

I’ve actually heard from some people that I view as reliable that Philly recently absorbed the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre/Pittston based Buffalino family in NE PA. After D’Elia testified to that grand jury it was weird they basically just shelved him but that was it. Anyways, it all sort of fell apart but the remaining few guys have been absorbed by Philly and Joey has a cousin named Dave DeMelfi who is actually a city councilman in one of the towns up there it starts with an ‘N’, and he’s running the show for Joey. Not sure if he’s a “Capo” or not but he’s Joey’s guy in the NE part of the state and he’s very loyal to Joey. He even runs a business for Joey in Philly additionally so he’s down here a lot. He’s got gambling and scrap metal scams going on up there and I’ve even heard they have their hands in the pot over at the Mohegan Sun Casino, but not sure to what extent or if that’s even 100% true, but what I’ve heard. Joey has been seen eating there with David several times prior to his casino ban.

[PHL_Mob]

Dave DeMelfi was also a Teamsters Head for the local UL there. Not sure if there’s anything there, but he’s involved in the local so...

[Wiseguy]

Question for the forum!..... I’d like to know everyone’s thoughts on what’s left! ......of families throughout the country. I know there have been plenty of discussions in past years on this topic. But as of today, July 9, 2019, what is the “REAL” state of affairs on LCN in America!
-
I’d say there are probably, give or take, approximately 12-14 fully active and functioning groups (although admittedly reduced in size and strength) in America today:
The NYC Five....of course
New Jersey
Philadelphia
New England
Buffalo/Montreal-Canada
Detroit
Chicago.........hanging by thread
Milwaukee ?.....
-
After that, (in my opinion), the rest or whatever is left of the rest, probably constitute what could be categorized as glorified “crews” or a single “regime”, if even that.... not a full true “borgata” in the sense that we think of it as.
-
There are of course, many “cells” for lack of a better word, operating throughout Canada (Toronto, etc), representing many families back in Calabria. And I believe (IMO) that there are also some, if not many, such groups operating in the NY-NJ area, South Florida, maybe Philly, etc., strategically placed, that have not yet been exposed or identified.....But I’m talking about the “Traditional” 24-26 original LCN families that operated in the U.S., not “Italy based” groups like the N’drangheta, Camorra, etc., who recently came here.
-
But as far as Cleveland, Tampa, Pittston, maybe Los Angelos or St. Louis and other such cities that years ago had a formal family structure, now have but a few single guys left (maybe 1-2 made men, and some associates), if anything, “just doing their thing”, without any central command, or kicking up or actually organized in any real fashion.
-
So what’s actually out there??

Reading your post it's like I'm back on the Real Deal forum circa 2007.

There are 9 families left.

The 5 New York families (which have 75-80% of the mob's remaining membership), as well as 4 small families in New Jersey, New England, Philadephia, and Chicago. Only the NY families are really considered a priority at this point. The only other area where this is still a fairly significant mob presence is South Florida, where the NY families operate.

Detroit is, at best, a grey area with conflicting info. But relative lack of cases, over an extended period of time, suggest what's left is not involved in much beyond bookmaking and legitimate businesses.

The FBI has said there is no family left in Buffalo/Western New York. There has been some recent activity involving members of the family's Canadian faction.

There is no family left in Milwaukee and there hasn't been a mob case there in decades.

There are, of course, still living members in several other cities but that obviously doesn't mean there's a formally structured family present.

[maxiestern11]

Question for the forum!..... I’d like to know everyone’s thoughts on what’s left! ......of families throughout the country. I know there have been plenty of discussions in past years on this topic. But as of today, July 9, 2019, what is the “REAL” state of affairs on LCN in America!
-
I’d say there are probably, give or take, approximately 12-14 fully active and functioning groups (although admittedly reduced in size and strength) in America today:
The NYC Five....of course
New Jersey
Philadelphia
New England
Buffalo/Montreal-Canada
Detroit
Chicago.........hanging by thread
Milwaukee ?.....
-
After that, (in my opinion), the rest or whatever is left of the rest, probably constitute what could be categorized as glorified “crews” or a single “regime”, if even that.... not a full true “borgata” in the sense that we think of it as.
-
There are of course, many “cells” for lack of a better word, operating throughout Canada (Toronto, etc), representing many families back in Calabria. And I believe (IMO) that there are also some, if not many, such groups operating in the NY-NJ area, South Florida, maybe Philly, etc., strategically placed, that have not yet been exposed or identified.....But I’m talking about the “Traditional” 24-26 original LCN families that operated in the U.S., not “Italy based” groups like the N’drangheta, Camorra, etc., who recently came here.
-
But as far as Cleveland, Tampa, Pittston, maybe Los Angelos or St. Louis and other such cities that years ago had a formal family structure, now have but a few single guys left (maybe 1-2 made men, and some associates), if anything, “just doing their thing”, without any central command, or kicking up or actually organized in any real fashion.
-
So what’s actually out there??

Reading your post it's like I'm back on the Real Deal forum circa 2007.

There are 9 families left.

The 5 New York families (which have 75-80% of the mob's remaining membership), as well as 4 small families in New Jersey, New England, Philadephia, and Chicago. Only the NY families are really considered a priority at this point. The only other area where this is still a fairly significant mob presence is South Florida, where the NY families operate.

Detroit is, at best, a grey area with conflicting info. But relative lack of cases, over an extended period of time, suggest what's left is not involved in much beyond bookmaking and legitimate businesses.

The FBI has said there is no family left in Buffalo/Western New York. There has been some recent activity involving members of the family's Canadian faction.

There is no family left in Milwaukee and there hasn't been a mob case there in decades.

There are, of course, still living members in several other cities but that obviously doesn't mean there's a formally structured family present.

Wiseguy. I’d mostly agree. Only I think Buffalo/Canada is a serious question mark at this point, because of as you mention “some activity” detected up there! Not like it was during Magaddino’s rein certainly, but possibly still a structure of sorts. As far as a place like St. Louis, (which I never thought much of mob wise to begin with)... I don’t know enough about them to make an informed judgement, but if Chicago is in trouble, and they were the big brother out there so to speak, I gotta believe St. Louis is kaput also! Yes or no! I may be mistaken like I say, I don’t know much about mid-west. But I thought Detroit was still viable? Maybe not. I do know that there have been a few cases D’Anna brothers, etc.,.... and I know that family was always very low key to begin with. So I was wondering if they had something left.

[NJShore4Life]

I’ve actually heard from some people that I view as reliable that Philly recently absorbed the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre/Pittston based Buffalino family in NE PA. After D’Elia testified to that grand jury it was weird they basically just shelved him but that was it. Anyways, it all sort of fell apart but the remaining few guys have been absorbed by Philly and Joey has a cousin named Dave DeMelfi who is actually a city councilman in one of the towns up there it starts with an ‘N’, and he’s running the show for Joey. Not sure if he’s a “Capo” or not but he’s Joey’s guy in the NE part of the state and he’s very loyal to Joey. He even runs a business for Joey in Philly additionally so he’s down here a lot. He’s got gambling and scrap metal scams going on up there and I’ve even heard they have their hands in the pot over at the Mohegan Sun Casino, but not sure to what extent or if that’s even 100% true, but what I’ve heard. Joey has been seen eating there with David several times prior to his casino ban.

Makes sense as Ligambi used to meet frequently with Big Billy D’Elia in the 2000s , there has always been a relationship there.

[NJShore4Life]

March 4-10, 2004

city beat

Billy's Back in Town
An out-of-town mob honcho meets with the Philly don.

by Brendan McGarvey

Late last week, organized-crime investigators followed reputed Scranton-Wilkes-Barre Mafia boss Billy D’Elia through Center City. At 6-foot-4, 240 pounds, he couldn’t have been hard to trail.

A well-dressed man in his 50s, D'Elia sauntered along Jewelers Row for a few minutes before turning off the street and ducking into a store where he allegedly met with reputed Philly kingpin Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi. Details of that meeting aren't exactly known, but investigators say they're suspicious.

"We know that [they] have business to discuss," a law enforcement source tells City Paper. "And the best way to do that is face to face. No phones. No intermediaries. No witnesses."

Mob watchers have long been fascinated by the connections between the Scranton and the Philly crime families, and D'Elia's history runs deep. He allegedly runs Pennsylvania's oldest crime family; it was founded in the 1880s by two Sicilian immigrants. Its power once stretched from the Poconos to upstate New York, with soldiers and associates in Long Island, New York City, New Jersey and Philadelphia.

The Scranton mob gained underworld infamy for hosting the Apalachin, N.Y., Mafia convention in 1957. More than 100 Italian-American racketeers from across the country gathered at Scranton mob boss Joseph M. Barbara's upstate New York farm to discuss international heroin trafficking, the recent murder of New York mob boss Albert Anastasia by Carlo Gambino, and a decision to "close the books," or not recruit new members for the time being. But the New York State Police noticed an unusual number of out-of-state license plates, so they raided the meeting and arrested 60 high-level hoodlums from New York, New Orleans, Tampa, Detroit, Chicago, Boston, Denver, Buffalo, Newark and Philadelphia. Another 50 mobsters escaped through the woods by climbing over fences and wading through muddy cow pastures in their expensive suits and black fedoras.

In the late '50s, around the same time that Angelo Bruno became the top Philadelphia Mafiosi, Russell Bufalino took over the Scranton Mafia, which he ran until his death in 1990. (Bufalino is buried in a Catholic cemetery in Conshohocken.) One of his sisters maintained a small estate just off City Line Avenue in Merion and a condo -- under another name -- in Society Hill where, according to Scranton mob associates, Bufalino held meetings. In case of an emergency or mob war, it would double as a hideaway. Bufalino was quite close with Bruno, and so were their families. In one instance, the mob leaders even split up two brothers, allowing one to join the Philly mob and one to sign on in Scranton.

All of which brings us back to last week, as D'Elia was once Bufalino's driver. In 1986, D'Elia held a no-show job at the Philadelphia Industrial Correctional Center construction site. Asked by the Pennsylvania Crime Commission how he got the job, he refused to testify -- twice. Three years later, Harold Kaufman, a former union official turned government witness, told the commission that D'Elia was a mob power broker in the solid-waste landfill industry in upstate Pennsylvania. A 1992 commission report claimed that D'Elia was turning trash into cash for various Mafia crime families. When John Stanfa ran the Philly mob in the early '90s, he met often with D'Elia, sometimes at a mob-run Italian restaurant in Northeast Philadelphia. Sergio Battaglia, a Stanfa soldier turned federal witness, later testified that Stanfa wanted to kill his own hit men and have the Scranton Mafia dispose of the bodies. Stanfa was furious with John Veasey and Philip Colletti because they failed to kill Joey Merlino and left behind evidence -- a leased car --after the slaying of Michael Ciancaglini. If lured to Wilkes-Barre, the two would've been buried in a hole already dug by D'Elia.

FBI wiretaps recorded D'Elia conversing with a Stanfa attorney about Mafia involvement in the trash-for-cash business and D'Elia's relationship with reputed New York mobster Salvatore J. Profaci. When Ralph Natale became the local don, it was D'Elia who introduced him to the leaders of the Colombo crime family in Brooklyn in 1996. (Around the same time, police sources claim that D'Elia became the acting boss of the Poconos mob.) Even though D'Elia sided with Stanfa during the Stanfa-Merlino mob war, he was such good friends with the Skinny one by November 1996 that he attended the christening party for Merlino's daughter. Two years later, D'Elia was at Gianna's restaurant in South Philly, where the FBI recorded Natale chairing a mob meeting. Later that evening, 40 mobsters arrived to celebrate Merlino's birthday. In February 2003, the New Jersey Casino Control Commission banned D'Elia from Atlantic City casinos for life. He was placed on the exclusion list after the commission examined information from federal and state investigators and the court testimony of boss-turned-rat Natale, who testified that D'Elia has "criminal contacts all over the country." Looking at the history, it makes perfect sense that investigators are now trying to figure out the nature of D'Elia's recent visit.

"They're both bosses. So what are they meeting about? Money. It's always about money. Making lots of money doing something bad together," says an investigator. "I guarantee you, Billy D'Elia isn't driving down the Northeast Extension of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, two hours one way, just to say, "How ya doing, Joe?' It's business. It's always about business. Mob business."

[Wiseguy]

Wiseguy. I’d mostly agree. Only I think Buffalo/Canada is a serious question mark at this point, because of as you mention “some activity” detected up there! Not like it was during Magaddino’s rein certainly, but possibly still a structure of sorts. As far as a place like St. Louis, (which I never thought much of mob wise to begin with)... I don’t know enough about them to make an informed judgement, but if Chicago is in trouble, and they were the big brother out there so to speak, I gotta believe St. Louis is kaput also! Yes or no! I may be mistaken like I say, I don’t know much about mid-west. But I thought Detroit was still viable? Maybe not. I do know that there have been a few cases D’Anna brothers, etc.,.... and I know that family was always very low key to begin with. So I was wondering if they had something left.

The feds had St. Louis at 17 members in 1980 and less than 10 by the late-1980s. That was 30 years ago. The last case was in 1992. There may be one or two members still alive but that's it.

Detroit has been a bone of contention on the forums for years. Some sources say the family is still there and you still do it on some FBI lists. The last really significant bust was the GamTax case in 1996. A decade later, in 2006, there was a much smaller bookmaking and loansharking case. There were about 30 members at most nearly 20 years ago and several have died since then.

As for Buffalo, the last really significant case was in 1996 when the family's powerbase (LIUNA Local 210) was put under oversight. In 2006 the feds had the family at 23 members and several have died since then. For about 20 years there was relatively little in the way of mob activity coming out of Buffalo. And, as I said, in 2017 the FBI said the mob no longer "had a presence in region," and there were only “handful of surviving members with no leader or viable organization."

What's happened with the Buffalo family (on the Canadian side of the border anyway) isn't all that different from what we've seen elsewhere in the past. In 2010, there was a bookmaking bust in Kansas City that had at least one member and several other guys with familiar names from the past. But that doesn't mean there's a viable family left there.

[maxiestern11]

Wiseguy. I’d mostly agree. Only I think Buffalo/Canada is a serious question mark at this point, because of as you mention “some activity” detected up there! Not like it was during Magaddino’s rein certainly, but possibly still a structure of sorts. As far as a place like St. Louis, (which I never thought much of mob wise to begin with)... I don’t know enough about them to make an informed judgement, but if Chicago is in trouble, and they were the big brother out there so to speak, I gotta believe St. Louis is kaput also! Yes or no! I may be mistaken like I say, I don’t know much about mid-west. But I thought Detroit was still viable? Maybe not. I do know that there have been a few cases D’Anna brothers, etc.,.... and I know that family was always very low key to begin with. So I was wondering if they had something left.

The feds had St. Louis at 17 members in 1980 and less than 10 by the late-1980s. That was 30 years ago. The last case was in 1992. There may be one or two members still alive but that's it.

Detroit has been a bone of contention on the forums for years. Some sources say the family is still there and you still do it on some FBI lists. The last really significant bust was the GamTax case in 1996. A decade later, in 2006, there was a much smaller bookmaking and loansharking case. There were about 30 members at most nearly 20 years ago and several have died since then.

As for Buffalo, the last really significant case was in 1996 when the family's powerbase (LIUNA Local 210) was put under oversight. In 2006 the feds had the family at 23 members and several have died since then. For about 20 years there was relatively little in the way of mob activity coming out of Buffalo. And, as I said, in 2017 the FBI said the mob no longer "had a presence in region," and there were only “handful of surviving members with no leader or viable organization."

What's happened with the Buffalo family (on the Canadian side of the border anyway) isn't all that different from what we've seen elsewhere in the past. In 2010, there was a bookmaking bust in Kansas City that had at least one member and several other guys with familiar names from the past. But that doesn't mean there's a viable family left there.

Well, then I’d have to agree with you, that those families are dead!....... so basically they’re down to nine families. That’s a far cry from twenty-something years back!

In twenty years, the way it’s going, LCN will be unrecognizable! ....... as how we know it anyway!

[Wiseguy]

Well, then I’d have to agree with you, that those families are dead!....... so basically they’re down to nine families. That’s a far cry from twenty-something years back!

In twenty years, the way it’s going, LCN will be unrecognizable! ....... as how we know it anyway!

I'm not prepared to give a timeframe but I do believe the day will come when the Mafia will only be found within the extended New York metropolitan area.

[Extortion]

Is gambling even really criminal at this point? Is it even a mob if they dont kill ppl and just gamble?

[maxiestern11]

Well, then I’d have to agree with you, that those families are dead!....... so basically they’re down to nine families. That’s a far cry from twenty-something years back!

In twenty years, the way it’s going, LCN will be unrecognizable! ....... as how we know it anyway!

I'm not prepared to give a timeframe but I do believe the day will come when the Mafia will only be found within the extended New York metropolitan area.

The circling of the wagon trains sort of thing! I believe that too! The most guys are in NYC .... always were, so makes sense they’ll be last to stand!

[SonnyBlackstein]

But that doesn't mean there's a viable family left there.

No, just thirty buttons and an operating administration but who ever considered that viable eh.

[NickleCity]

But that doesn't mean there's a viable family left there.

No, just thirty buttons and an operating administration but who ever considered that viable eh.

+1
And evidence of making members, capos being put in charge, and an underboss put in place to facilitate greater collaboration with other families. Yet they are not considered a structured family.

[Wiseguy]

But that doesn't mean there's a viable family left there.

No, just thirty buttons and an operating administration but who ever considered that viable eh.

Mmm hmm. It's Detroit all over again. Those 30+ made guys sure are quiet.

+1
And evidence of making members, capos being put in charge, and an underboss put in place to facilitate greater collaboration with other families. Yet they are not considered a structured family.

It's already been explained there have been cases in the past of guys getting made or promotions in families that were basically defunct.