Interwsting new raab interview

[Wiseguy]

Raab added this to his 10 year edition of the book last year.

Some things mentioned in it:


By 2016, many Mafia families, including long-entrenched ones in Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Tampa, and Southern California had been virtually eliminated or weakened to the level of a handful of elderly "has beens." Remarkably, the Mafia’s venerable and strongest families survived in New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and other pockets of the Northeast. The New York families are still a problem but in most of the country the Cosa Nostra is no longer a priority for law enforcement.

The five New York families, the nations largest and most powerful, remain intact in the New York area. Their infiltration of labor unions and control of huge money pots, like garbage carting and the Fulton Fish Market, has been greatly reduced but mafiosi continue popping up in no-show, lucrative union jobs in construction, trucking, and waterfront industries. The families continue to sustain themselves through illegal gambling, loan sharking, drug trafficking, and extortion of restaurants, nightclubs and other businesses.

To ward off intense scrutiny, investigators believe the new hierarchies have put a lid on murders. This brings less headlines and less pressure. There has not been a notorious mob slaying in the new century. However, the Sicilian or "Zip" members have apparently adopted the system long used by Italian Mafia families to deter defectors, ie threatening to kill close family members.

Another development is the reshaping of the Mafia Commission. To discourage surveillance by investigators who might spot gatherings of prominent members, family bosses or emissaries now confer on a one to one basis. They have to keep the Commission alive to cope with various problems, including threats from other organized crime groups, like Russians or Albanians, but no big meetings.

The five families combined strength in numbers has fallen only slightly from around 1,000 in the 1980s. Law enforcement estimates the five families can now muster a total of 700 to 800 made members. The Genovese and Gambinos remain the largest and most powerful. However, while the families still get new people, the talent level has declined across the board.

https://books.google.com/books?id=VhRmD ... ts&f=false

[Pogo The Clown]

By 2016, many Mafia families, including long-entrenched ones in Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Tampa, and Southern California had been virtually eliminated or weakened to the level of a handful of elderly "has beens."

This won't go over well.


Pogo

[FriendofHenry]

By 2016, many Mafia families, including long-entrenched ones in Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Tampa, and Southern California had been virtually eliminated or weakened to the level of a handful of elderly "has beens."

This won't go over well.


Pogo

As Myron Cope would say : "Yoi"

[baldo]

what do u think of the following:

"However, the Sicilian or "Zip" members have apparently adopted the system long used by Italian Mafia families to deter defectors, ie threatening to kill close family members.

Another development is the reshaping of the Mafia Commission. To discourage surveillance by investigators who might spot gatherings of prominent members, family bosses or emissaries now confer on a one to one basis. They have to keep the Commission alive to cope with various problems, including threats from other organized crime groups, like Russians or Albanians, but no big meetings"

[tmarotta]

"To ward off intense scrutiny, investigators believe the new hierarchies have put a lid on murders. This brings less headlines and less pressure. There has not been a notorious mob slaying in the new century. However, the Sicilian or "Zip" members have apparently adopted the system long used by Italian Mafia families to deter defectors, ie threatening to kill close family members."

Not sure what he means by notorious mob slayings. There have not been any murders on the scale of Albert Anastasia or Paul Castellano, and sure the total number of killings has been way down, but there have still been murders. Several of these murders made the news as well such as Bonanno member Anthony Seccafico's murder in 2009. Not sure what constitutes a "notorious" slaying.

[Lupara]

Not sure what constitutes a "notorious" slaying.

Like you mentioned, murders of high-ranking or notorious (a la Galante) members that will make the headlines. I think they'll basically only kill when they are left with no choice and it's absolutely necessary.

Personally I don't see what the fuss is about about the Mafia's self regulation: killing its own members. When was the last time an innocent bystander became victim of collateral damage, and how often has that happened anyway?

Fact is the Mafia is still part of the feds' bread and butter. They crave a notorious killing because it gives them a reason to pursue and play the cat and mouse game. The Mafia has been forced to take an as low as possible profile in order to give the feds as little as possible reason to dedicate resources to crack them down. Ultimately this is a good thing, not necessarily for us mob watchers but a good thing nevertheless.

[JCB1977]

"The talent level has declined across the board" might be the biggest understatement that Raab said. Fact is, Italians aren't coming over to the U.S in record numbers any longer and the world has changed. Most of the poor Italian immigrants got into the life for a better living while these young guys today have an over abundance of legitimate opportunities. These 3rd and 4th generation Italian Americans have no fucking clue what it is like to struggle and not put food on the table for their families. The money in LCN isn't anywhere close to what it used to be. Law Enforcement tools such as RICO scare the shit out of most of these newer guys today. Most of these new guys can't do 20 years. It's a different landscape and LCN as we know it will cease to exist over the next 25-30 years.

[Wiseguy]

what do u think of the following:

"However, the Sicilian or "Zip" members have apparently adopted the system long used by Italian Mafia families to deter defectors, ie threatening to kill close family members.

Maybe that's their philosophy, and perhaps even the perceived threat, but I think we have yet to see it actually happen. Not since Casso anyway.

Another development is the reshaping of the Mafia Commission. To discourage surveillance by investigators who might spot gatherings of prominent members, family bosses or emissaries now confer on a one to one basis. They have to keep the Commission alive to cope with various problems, including threats from other organized crime groups, like Russians or Albanians, but no big meetings"

I imagine they meet about all sorts of things, including any potential problems from other groups. But I don't see much evidence of other groups being a major threat. The last issue was, of course, the Rudaj organization. And that was overblown anyway.

Personally I don't see what the fuss is about about the Mafia's self regulation: killing its own members. When was the last time an innocent bystander became victim of collateral damage, and how often has that happened anyway?

While a mobster getting killed isn't anything for law abiding citizens to lose sleep over, in the larger sense I think it's about civilization not allowing criminal organizations to just kill with impunity, even if it's their own.

"The talent level has declined across the board" might be the biggest understatement that Raab said. Fact is, Italians aren't coming over to the U.S in record numbers any longer and the world has changed. Most of the poor Italian immigrants got into the life for a better living while these young guys today have an over abundance of legitimate opportunities. These 3rd and 4th generation Italian Americans have no fucking clue what it is like to struggle and not put food on the table for their families. The money in LCN isn't anywhere close to what it used to be. Law Enforcement tools such as RICO scare the shit out of most of these newer guys today. Most of these new guys can't do 20 years. It's a different landscape and LCN as we know it will cease to exist over the next 25-30 years.

Here was quoting FBI agent Jeffrey Sallett, who was part of the Bonanno squad that took down Massino. Later he took over things for the bureau in Providence and helped bring indictments against Manocchio and others. He's now head of the FBI in New Orleans.

Anyway, I agree with you to a point. But those poor Italian immigrants have been gone for a long time and the LCN didn't disappear with them. Nor did it vanish when Italian neighborhoods did. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the biggest believers in attrition being the #1 killer of mob families. More so than even law enforcement. But it hasn't had an equal affect on every family. Naturally the larger and more powerful families, which have a bigger pool to recruit from, have weathered attrition better. It's not a coincidence that the Justice Department listed the same families 25 years ago in 1992 that are still around today --
New York City, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Chicago, Boston and South Florida (where the NY families operate).

That said, in another 25-30 years suppose its possible only remnants will remain of the families in New Jersey, Philadelphia, New England, and Chicago. Others, like Buffalo and Detroit, may still have a few members still alive by then. Everyone else will be gone in the rest of the families. At that point, I think the American Mafia really will be solely a New York enterprise, ie only the five families left, with little to no LCN presence outside the NY metropolitan area. And by that I mean the five boroughs, Long Island, Westchester and parts of the northern suburbs, Southwest Connecticut, and North Jersey.

[Fughedaboutit]

By 2016, many Mafia families, including long-entrenched ones in Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Tampa, and Southern California had been virtually eliminated or weakened to the level of a handful of elderly "has beens."

This won't go over well.


Pogo

Because it isnt true. This guy focused on the five NY families so how would he know about Detroit anyway?

[SonnyBlackstein]

By 2016, many Mafia families, including long-entrenched ones in Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Tampa, and Southern California had been virtually eliminated or weakened to the level of a handful of elderly "has beens."

This won't go over well.


Pogo

Because it isnt true. ...

annnd we're off.....

[Fughedaboutit]

By 2016, many Mafia families, including long-entrenched ones in Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Tampa, and Southern California had been virtually eliminated or weakened to the level of a handful of elderly "has beens."

This won't go over well.


Pogo

Because it isnt true. ...

annnd we're off.....

and you see who instigated it first when it wasn't needed, so of course I am going to rebuttal it

[Wiseguy]

By 2016, many Mafia families, including long-entrenched ones in Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Tampa, and Southern California had been virtually eliminated or weakened to the level of a handful of elderly "has beens."

This won't go over well.


Pogo

Because it isnt true. ...

annnd we're off.....

and you see who instigated it first when it wasn't needed, so of course I am going to rebuttal it

Maybe you should call up Raab and tell him to stop instigating things.

[AG777]

By 2016, many Mafia families, including long-entrenched ones in Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Tampa, and Southern California had been virtually eliminated or weakened to the level of a handful of elderly "has beens."

This won't go over well.


Pogo

Because it isnt true. ...

annnd we're off.....

and you see who instigated it first when it wasn't needed, so of course I am going to rebuttal it

Maybe you should call up Raab and tell him to stop instigating things.

OR maybe you should just "fuhgeddaboudit" It's a no-win situation Next...

[Fughedaboutit]

By 2016, many Mafia families, including long-entrenched ones in Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Tampa, and Southern California had been virtually eliminated or weakened to the level of a handful of elderly "has beens."

This won't go over well.


Pogo

Because it isnt true. ...

annnd we're off.....

and you see who instigated it first when it wasn't needed, so of course I am going to rebuttal it

Maybe you should call up Raab and tell him to stop instigating things.

I know you aren't this dull..it was in the prologue...but your BFF was obviously the instigator.

[Fughedaboutit]

By 2016, many Mafia families, including long-entrenched ones in Detroit, Cleveland, New Orleans, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Tampa, and Southern California had been virtually eliminated or weakened to the level of a handful of elderly "has beens."

This won't go over well.


Pogo

Because it isnt true. ...

annnd we're off.....

and you see who instigated it first when it wasn't needed, so of course I am going to rebuttal it

Maybe you should call up Raab and tell him to stop instigating things.

OR maybe you should just "fuhgeddaboudit" It's a no-win situation Next...

lol hey they pop up in every Detroit thread known to man so Hey...what can ya do