Some of the guys in another thread started talking about rats from this era or that era, these guys are smarter yada yada yada. And I agree, as someone said it's all relative to a particular era just because of the laws of any given time from then to now that could determine ones actions.
Let's go back in time and wasn't there a possibility that Mollero traded some info? And Luciano too?
Then of course we have Bonanno writing his book that set off Guiliani into a whole different way of using a particular law.
Who do you think are the most influential rats? Of any given era....
RATS RATS and more RATS
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Dwalin2014
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Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
Among the 100% confirmed rats I would say Scarpa.
Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
In the early 60's the FBI force launched the Top Echelon Informant Program.In Chicago for example,they had a big sucess in the labor rackets.They had hidden informants from every rank within the mob and stayed like that for a long time.The relationship was held in strictest of confidence and only few people knew who was who. There was another thing,which i found very funny,and that was the criminals would not involve themselves in any criminal activity.If they wanted to penetrate the organization,it was logical for the informant to stay involved in crime and even murder.
As for who were the most influential rats...i would the say the ones that stayed unkown by the mob,like Scarpa.Bonnano also did his job pretty well
As for who were the most influential rats...i would the say the ones that stayed unkown by the mob,like Scarpa.Bonnano also did his job pretty well
Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God - Corinthians 6:9-10
Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
It's like Scarpa and Bulger/Flemmi took their informant status with LE to a whole new level, I'm not sure if there are many that can compare to these guys with how they played both sides to their advantage. And dangerous as anyone can come.
Then I was always amused about reading possibilities of Morello and Luciano, ironic how their family is the most powerful in the United States from years ago to now. Plus, I heard about the Chicago program and always found that interesting that it happened and that those identities are basically unknown.
Bill Bonanno, I wonder if his father new about his informing? When it was happening.
Then Casso and Gravano, rats that come off as creepy.
Then I was always amused about reading possibilities of Morello and Luciano, ironic how their family is the most powerful in the United States from years ago to now. Plus, I heard about the Chicago program and always found that interesting that it happened and that those identities are basically unknown.
Bill Bonanno, I wonder if his father new about his informing? When it was happening.
Then Casso and Gravano, rats that come off as creepy.
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
In terms of damage caused (indictments and convictions) it would have to be either Sammy Gravano or Al D'Arco.
Pogo
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
Pogo The Clown wrote:In terms of damage caused (indictments and convictions) it would have to be either Sammy Gravano or Al D'Arco.
Pogo
Pogo, would you happen to have any numbers those guys put away?
On a side note, what do you guys think of a rat chart? For example, take a rat from Philly and show the domino effect it had on putting members away and even making others become rats too. Like Leonetti not only hurt Philly but he was also used for some Gambino trials. It'd be interesting to see in a chart form, just a thought.
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
rayray wrote:Pogo, would you happen to have any numbers those guys put away?
Not an exact number but it was a lot.
I think Wiseguy might have a list of the guy's Gravano testified against.Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
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JeremyTheJew
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Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
Wait, are you talking about Bills book? Or are you saying Bill Bonanno was a CI?rayray wrote:Bill Bonanno, I wonder if his father new about his informing? When it was happening.
Then Casso and Gravano, rats that come off as creepy.
HANG IT UP NICKY. ITS TIME TO GO HOME.
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
JeremyTheJew wrote:Wait, are you talking about Bills book? Or are you saying Bill Bonanno was a CI?
I believe it has since come out that Bill Bonanno was secretly informing.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
http://www.onewal.com/a021/f_bbonanno.html
THE AMERICAN MAFIA - Article
'Banana War' informant
Evidence suggests Bonanno's son snitched
By Edmond Valin
Copyright © 2011
“I’ve always been fascinated with the motives of people who decide to become police informants. After all, it’s a dirty business ... anyway you look at it, it’s an indecent occupation.”1
- Joe Bonanno
In the 1960's, the FBI developed a high-level source within the Bonanno Crime Family. The source identified members, shared mafia gossip and provided an invaluable window into the intra-family turmoil often called the Banana War. The cooperation began in 1964 and continued periodically until 1967 at least. The source was never identified but a careful reading of FBI documents from the period is revealing.
The Banana War was a dispute within the Bonanno Family that began when some influential members resisted the increasing leadership role of Salvatore "Bill" Bonanno, the youthful son of family boss, Joe Bonanno. The resistance was encouraged by the other New York families who had long sought Joe Bonanno’s ouster for plotting against them earlier.2
The Bonanno Family soon split into rival factions that led to a shooting war called the Banana War. The split wasn’t repaired until Joe and Bill Bonanno conceded defeat, and retired to Arizona about 1968.3
Bonanno kidnapped
The NYPD circulated this bulletin after learning of the alleged kidnapping of Joseph Bonanno.
Informant Profile
The source was a made member of the Bonanno Family.4 He began cooperating with the FBI after he experienced a “personal problem involving his father.” The source was said to have the “potential to rise to the head of his family and perhaps to eventually gain a seat on the Commission,” or, if he wasn’t careful, to “lose his standing in the family.”
The source stopped cooperating for a time after the “partial resolution of this relative’s problem.”5
Prime Suspect: Bill Bonanno
Bill Bonanno
Bill Bonanno
The description of the source most resembles Bill Bonanno. Bill was a Mafia member. And like the unnamed informant, he experienced a problem with his father: Joseph Bonanno was apparently kidnapped in October of 1964.
During his father’s absence, Bill Bonanno was compelled to lead the Bonanno loyalists against a rival faction. His problem was partially resolved when his father surfaced unharmed nineteen months later and resumed control.
The inference is Bill Bonanno cooperated with the FBI during his father’s absence.
Bill Bonanno mirrors the source in other ways. He too hoped one day to succeed his father as leader of the Bonanno Family and claim a seat on the Commission alongside the other family bosses. And, like the source, Bonanno risked losing his standing (or worse) in the family if his faction lost the Banana War.
Moreover, the pool of suspects who fit this profile is severely limited. Outside of Bill Bonanno, what mobster was old enough to compete to lead the family but young enough to have a father alive needing the help of the FBI?6 At this time, only Bill Bonanno and Gaspar DiGregorio had a reasonable expectation of succeeding Joe Bonanno as leader.
Interestingly, the case agent of the source was Richard Anderson, the same agent who arrested Joe Bonanno when he reappeared after his kidnapping.7
More Evidence
The disclosures found in other documents are so wide ranging and privileged that they tend to direct suspicion on Bill Bonanno. For example, a source provided a variety of information about Bonanno including details about his vacation.8 The source knew Bonanno traveled alone to Europe to visit his mistress. The source provided the exact length of the trip, the itinerary, the full name of the mistress, and the activities. He gathered the information and shared it with the FBI all within two weeks of Bonanno’s return from Europe.
What is more likely? That Bonanno bragged in detail to an associate (who was an informant) about his vacation with his mistress during the middle of the Banana War or that Bonanno told the FBI himself?
The same source then proceeded to summarize the Banana War and the latest meeting between Bill Bonanno and the opposition.9 The source even noted that Bonanno carried a gun because “he would rather be caught by the police with one, than to be caught by “others” without one.”
In another document, a source identified Bonanno Family members in Arizona.10 The Arizona-based members were a group loyal to Joe Bonanno, separate from the New York group. The source had an informant code prefix of “NY,” which indicated that he was assigned to a case agent of the New York office of the FBI.
It is possible a few New York-based Bonanno members other than Bill Bonanno could have known the identities of the Arizona-based members, but it is unlikely that the New York based Bonanno member would be an informant too.11 Any Arizona-based source would have had an informant code prefix of “PX”.12
Cooperation Time Line
Bill Bonanno’s cooperation likely began in 196413 sometime after his father was kidnapped in October of that year.14
A top informant visited Canada around the end of 1964 to consult Mafia members in the area. The name of the city visited was redacted from a report, but elsewhere in the document, a reference is made to Bonanno Family members in Montreal.
While this source could be another Bonanno Family member, it’s consistent with Bill Bonanno.15 He was known to visit Montreal regularly to communicate with family members loyal to him. Documents linking Bonanno to the source could only be traced to October 1967.16
Bonanno’s cooperation was fallout from the Banana War. Although it might seem incredible17 that the son of a legendary Mafioso could be the source, Bonanno did demonstrate a tendency to reveal personal information.18 Perhaps in death Bonanno will clear up the speculation about his life when his final book is released later this year.19
(To see notes click on the above link and scroll to the bottom)
THE AMERICAN MAFIA - Article
'Banana War' informant
Evidence suggests Bonanno's son snitched
By Edmond Valin
Copyright © 2011
“I’ve always been fascinated with the motives of people who decide to become police informants. After all, it’s a dirty business ... anyway you look at it, it’s an indecent occupation.”1
- Joe Bonanno
In the 1960's, the FBI developed a high-level source within the Bonanno Crime Family. The source identified members, shared mafia gossip and provided an invaluable window into the intra-family turmoil often called the Banana War. The cooperation began in 1964 and continued periodically until 1967 at least. The source was never identified but a careful reading of FBI documents from the period is revealing.
The Banana War was a dispute within the Bonanno Family that began when some influential members resisted the increasing leadership role of Salvatore "Bill" Bonanno, the youthful son of family boss, Joe Bonanno. The resistance was encouraged by the other New York families who had long sought Joe Bonanno’s ouster for plotting against them earlier.2
The Bonanno Family soon split into rival factions that led to a shooting war called the Banana War. The split wasn’t repaired until Joe and Bill Bonanno conceded defeat, and retired to Arizona about 1968.3
Bonanno kidnapped
The NYPD circulated this bulletin after learning of the alleged kidnapping of Joseph Bonanno.
Informant Profile
The source was a made member of the Bonanno Family.4 He began cooperating with the FBI after he experienced a “personal problem involving his father.” The source was said to have the “potential to rise to the head of his family and perhaps to eventually gain a seat on the Commission,” or, if he wasn’t careful, to “lose his standing in the family.”
The source stopped cooperating for a time after the “partial resolution of this relative’s problem.”5
Prime Suspect: Bill Bonanno
Bill Bonanno
Bill Bonanno
The description of the source most resembles Bill Bonanno. Bill was a Mafia member. And like the unnamed informant, he experienced a problem with his father: Joseph Bonanno was apparently kidnapped in October of 1964.
During his father’s absence, Bill Bonanno was compelled to lead the Bonanno loyalists against a rival faction. His problem was partially resolved when his father surfaced unharmed nineteen months later and resumed control.
The inference is Bill Bonanno cooperated with the FBI during his father’s absence.
Bill Bonanno mirrors the source in other ways. He too hoped one day to succeed his father as leader of the Bonanno Family and claim a seat on the Commission alongside the other family bosses. And, like the source, Bonanno risked losing his standing (or worse) in the family if his faction lost the Banana War.
Moreover, the pool of suspects who fit this profile is severely limited. Outside of Bill Bonanno, what mobster was old enough to compete to lead the family but young enough to have a father alive needing the help of the FBI?6 At this time, only Bill Bonanno and Gaspar DiGregorio had a reasonable expectation of succeeding Joe Bonanno as leader.
Interestingly, the case agent of the source was Richard Anderson, the same agent who arrested Joe Bonanno when he reappeared after his kidnapping.7
More Evidence
The disclosures found in other documents are so wide ranging and privileged that they tend to direct suspicion on Bill Bonanno. For example, a source provided a variety of information about Bonanno including details about his vacation.8 The source knew Bonanno traveled alone to Europe to visit his mistress. The source provided the exact length of the trip, the itinerary, the full name of the mistress, and the activities. He gathered the information and shared it with the FBI all within two weeks of Bonanno’s return from Europe.
What is more likely? That Bonanno bragged in detail to an associate (who was an informant) about his vacation with his mistress during the middle of the Banana War or that Bonanno told the FBI himself?
The same source then proceeded to summarize the Banana War and the latest meeting between Bill Bonanno and the opposition.9 The source even noted that Bonanno carried a gun because “he would rather be caught by the police with one, than to be caught by “others” without one.”
In another document, a source identified Bonanno Family members in Arizona.10 The Arizona-based members were a group loyal to Joe Bonanno, separate from the New York group. The source had an informant code prefix of “NY,” which indicated that he was assigned to a case agent of the New York office of the FBI.
It is possible a few New York-based Bonanno members other than Bill Bonanno could have known the identities of the Arizona-based members, but it is unlikely that the New York based Bonanno member would be an informant too.11 Any Arizona-based source would have had an informant code prefix of “PX”.12
Cooperation Time Line
Bill Bonanno’s cooperation likely began in 196413 sometime after his father was kidnapped in October of that year.14
A top informant visited Canada around the end of 1964 to consult Mafia members in the area. The name of the city visited was redacted from a report, but elsewhere in the document, a reference is made to Bonanno Family members in Montreal.
While this source could be another Bonanno Family member, it’s consistent with Bill Bonanno.15 He was known to visit Montreal regularly to communicate with family members loyal to him. Documents linking Bonanno to the source could only be traced to October 1967.16
Bonanno’s cooperation was fallout from the Banana War. Although it might seem incredible17 that the son of a legendary Mafioso could be the source, Bonanno did demonstrate a tendency to reveal personal information.18 Perhaps in death Bonanno will clear up the speculation about his life when his final book is released later this year.19
(To see notes click on the above link and scroll to the bottom)
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East Bronx
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Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
I believe it.
"Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half-hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker." ---- Rounders.
Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
Joe Bonanno briefly stopped talking to Bill after it came out that he was sharing information with writer Gay Talese for the book "Honor Thy Father." All of that info in the book came from Bill, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that he was informing to the FBI.
Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
Angelo Lonardo, former Cleveland Underboss, was easily one of the top informants of his time and the highest ranking member of the mafia of his time when he testified. He put away alot of people and testified throughout the Commission Case and the Strawman Case. He singlehandedly brought down KC, Chicago, Cleveland and Fat Tony as well as some of the most influential Teamster officials in the country.
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davidf1989
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Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
People thought that Anthony St Laurent the Saint traded information about the Patriarca Crime Family to the Feds.
https://gangsterreport.com/gr-sources-r ... affidavit/
However the accusation made him so angry that he attempted to order a hit on Bobby Deluca who would later become an informant who took down Manocchio, Lato and Salemme.
https://gangsterreport.com/gr-sources-r ... affidavit/
However the accusation made him so angry that he attempted to order a hit on Bobby Deluca who would later become an informant who took down Manocchio, Lato and Salemme.
Re: RATS RATS and more RATS
I don't recall a list but Gravano did help put away Gotti, Locascio, 7 Gambino captains, other members of his family, plus people in other families like Chin, etc.
Sal Vitale would be up there too. Most have probably seen this list of all the people he testified against.
http://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes. ... mafia.html
Sal Vitale would be up there too. Most have probably seen this list of all the people he testified against.
http://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes. ... mafia.html
All roads lead to New York.