Gambino/Colombo Genovese/Lucchese

[johnny_scootch]

I was wondering about when these families split apart and the possible reasons for the break. I've read the May 2014 Informer a few times but there is so much info crammed into a small space its hard to wrap your head around it all. Any insight here at all would be greatly appreciated.

[B.]

Seems the Genovese/Luccheses split apart in the early 1920s due to the ongoing wars going on both within and from outside the family, with the core Morello faction (who were on the outs) attaching themselves to a group of upcoming powers (what would become the Masseria family) and the Reina faction keeping many of the remaining guys from the former Morello family.

Based on Rick and Angelo's research, Gambinos and Colombos were separate from the early 1910s. Mineo may have been given his own family shortly after his arrival due to his stature in Sicily. It may have been done also because D'Aquila had many new responsibilities as the capo di tutti capi and given that his family was already the largest, they needed to make things more manageable. The Mineo arrangement is still a bit unresolved, since he seems to have later become boss of D'Aquila's family after D'Aquila's death while leaving his former family in someone else's hands (most likely Salvatore DiBella). The Villabate mafiosi who would later dominate Mineo's former family had likely been associated with D'Aquila before Mineo arrived, as Giuseppe Fontana the most prominent Villabate mafioso seems to have been a top D'Aquila member. A unique situation for sure.

The guys who wrote the article can probably explain it a lot better, though the exact specifics of the splits are unknown to my knowledge.

[johnny_scootch]

Thank U for response. What was Mineo's status in Sicily before coming here?

I'd love to hear anything from the guys who wrote the article, hopefully they see this thread before it gets buried.

[B.]

Thank U for response. What was Mineo's status in Sicily before coming here?

I'd love to hear anything from the guys who wrote the article, hopefully they see this thread before it gets buried.

No idea what his status was, if any. Because he became boss of a (likely new) family so soon after his arrival, you can assume he was at least a known mafioso in Palermo, if not a ranking one. The other guys might know something about his associations back there, but I don't know.

[brianwellbrock]

So the Luccheses were the first family to be forned? Makes sense of their small size.

[Pogo The Clown]

So the Luccheses were the first family to be forned? Makes sense of their small size.

The Gambinos/Colombos were the first family from what the researches have found.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

So the Luccheses were the first family to be forned? Makes sense of their small size.

The Gamnios/Colombos were the first family from what the researches have found.


Pogo

That's brings up the question of why then are the Genovese (because of the Morellos) referred to as "the first family?" Also, elsewhere I've seen the Colombos referred to as the youngestof the 5 NY families.

[johnny_scootch]

It's hard to believe that Mineo was such a big shot that his arrival in USA immediately warranted the formation of a new family just for him. Maranzano was a big shot in Sicily and when he comes over he's just a regular soldier.

IF the theory laid out in the informer article is right.....the lineage would be
Gambino/Colombo (1870-1880's), Genovese/Lucchese (1890's), Bonanno (1898-1906), Colombo (1911), Lucchese (1920's).

Does that look right? I got those dates maybe from the article itself or somewhere on here I forget exactly where.

[B.]

It's hard to believe that Mineo was such a big shot that his arrival in USA immediately warranted the formation of a new family just for him. Maranzano was a big shot in Sicily and when he comes over he's just a regular soldier.

IF the theory laid out in the informer article is right.....the lineage would be
Gambino/Colombo (1870-1880's), Genovese/Lucchese (1890's), Bonanno (1898-1906), Colombo (1911), Lucchese (1920's).

Does that look right? I got those dates maybe from the article itself or somewhere on here I forget exactly where.

Hard to say on Mineo since we don't know about his connections. With a lot of these guys it seems they are in the right place at the right time and have some of the skills/personality needed for the job, plus some connections to the right people. Joe Bonanno was just a kid who had been made for a couple years when he took over his family and there are a lot of examples of this type of thing.

Looks right to me on the timeline, based on the research the other guys have done. It's basically splitting hairs, but I lean more toward the Genovese being the one that was created in the 1920s since it seems like the old Morello guys who joined Masseria were kicked out of their previous family, while the Reina guys had remained together from the beginning.

Wiseguy -- as more research has been done, people have dug deeper and found better info. Nothing is set in stone but from reading the info these guys have found I'd say they are closer to the truth than what was said previously.

[johnny_scootch]

Ahhhh yes I was wondering about which family continued from that original Morello group. Seems like its obvious with Morello himself aligning with Masseria but there is always more to the story. All this really flips the conventional beliefs on their head. I appreciate the feedback.

[Angelo Santino]

I was wondering about when these families split apart and the possible reasons for the break. I've read the May 2014 Informer a few times but there is so much info crammed into a small space its hard to wrap your head around it all. Any insight here at all would be greatly appreciated.

To be perfectly honest, we actually tried to omit about 70% because it was getting too large to be deemed an article. Quite honestly it all began when another researcher was scraping away at "Sebastion Di Gitano's" identity, it became apparent to Rick and I that we better stamp it before someone else does. The article was supposed to be a brief read on Family succession but evolved into half-a-book. It is definitely crammed and In the future I'd like to break it up into segments and expand on it. Behind the scenes there are plans for this but it's currently a work in progress.

As far as whether the Luccheses or Genoveses are the true successors of the Morellos/Corleonesi, it could go either way. I, myself, always considered the Genoveses to be, until very recently where B. laid out his thoughts on why the Luccheses might be better awarded that distinction.

[johnny_scootch]

It's basically splitting hairs, but I lean more toward the Genovese being the one that was created in the 1920s since it seems like the old Morello guys who joined Masseria were kicked out of their previous family, while the Reina guys had remained together from the beginning.

Not to split hairs but I have to ask was Masseria a boss with his own family when the old Morello guys joined him?

Behind the scenes there are plans for this but it's currently a work in progress.

I look for ward to reading it. The formation of the families is an extremely interesting topic.

[johnny_scootch]

Is it possible Masseria's group was outside the Mafia system until Morello and company joined up with them and legitimized them in the eyes of the other families? I'm imagining a scenario where Morello thrown out of the family he founded searching for allies connects with Masseria's group thats Italian but not Mafia. Morello makes Masseria and all his top guys including many non sicilians they deem themselves a family or somehow manage to get recognition and Morello is once again in position to challenge D'Aquila.