The Mob in 10 Years (Who is Defunct; Who is Extant)

[PTown]

I will make a prediction here, perhaps a foolish one, as others have been wrong before. But it looks like in 10 years, we'll have "deez dem doze" thoroughly Americanized Italian American wiseguys (with originally Sicily, Calabria, and Campania heritage) functioning only in New York and maybe Philly. And we'll have mostly 1st or 2nd generation Calabrians operating in Canada. And that's it.

We can debate the term "defunct" and how resilient the mob is, but here is the picture I have in my head:

Defunct
Rockford, IL
Madison, WI
San Francisco, CA
San Jose, CA
Rochester, NY
Dallas, TX
Milwaukee, WI
Northeastern Pennsylvania Family
Pittsburgh, PA
Pueblo/Denver, CO
St. Louis, MO
New Orleans, LA
Tampa, FL

Possibly Extant, But No Longer Functioning

Kansas City, MO
Los Angeles, CA
Cleveland, OH

Clinging On, Barely
Detroit, MI
New Jersey (DeCavalcante Family)
Buffalo, NY
Chicago, IL
New England (Patriarca Family)

Even as a new member here, I realize the placement of DeCavs and Buffalo on that list (versus a worse or better one) are controversial. I also realize some in LE believe Detroit is reasonably healthy. And I also realize placing Chicago on this "Clinging On" list is controversial, but I believe all this is accurate.

What will it mean when in 10 years, the old families left are in NY? It's hard to say that the mob is a nationwide phenomenon anymore...

[SonnyBlackstein]

I will say Canada is a completely different beast.
Excluding the Rizzuto 'family', the Ndrangheta clans in Toronto are not going anywhere for the foreseeable.

[Pogo The Clown]

Night and day difference between New Jersey, New England and Chicago compared to Buffalo and Detroit. They don’t belong in the same category. And there is literally 1 living member (who is well over 80) remaining in Cleveland. Don’t know why they would be listed separately from places like Rochester or Tampa which have far more living members.


Pogo

[Brovelli]

Night and day difference between New Jersey, New England and Chicago compared to Buffalo and Detroit. They don’t belong in the same category.


Pogo

The difference being that buffalo and Detroit are far smaller and less active than the other 3?

[Pogo The Clown]

That is putting it mildly. As small and weak as they are NE, NJ and Chicago are still recognized as existing by the Feds and (at least until very recently) we see regular cases against them. On the other hand the Feds haven’t recognized Buffalo going on 20 years (if not longer). And it has been almost as long since we have seen an LCN case out of Detroit. Night and day.


Pogo

[Newyorkempire]

Well that's not accurate at all as usual

[Wiseguy]

All of the families listed under "defunct" and "possibly extant but no longer functioning" were essentially finished by the end of the 1980s. The one exception might be Pittsburgh who, along with Buffalo and Detroit, lasted through the 1990s. New Jersey, New England, Philadelphia, and Chicago have lasted longer into the 21st century but we're seeing that starting to come to and end. Even in years past some government reports made a distinction between the LCN families in New York and "LCN operational activity" in those other areas. While I don't have an exact year to predict, I think we've long been closer to the Mafia being only within the NY metro area than many may realize.

[NickleCity]

That is putting it mildly. As small and weak as they are NE, NJ and Chicago are still recognized as existing by the Feds and (at least until very recently) we see regular cases against them. On the other hand the Feds haven’t recognized Buffalo going on 20 years (if not longer). And it has been almost as long since we have seen an LCN case out of Detroit. Night and day.


Pogo

Hey Pogo, what is your source for Feds not recognizing Buffalo 20 years or more ago?

We have Lee Coppola who is a book reviewer when he writes an opinion piece for the Buffalo News in 98 called The Withered Arm. He worked for BN from 67-83. Broadcast News from 83-93, and then an assistant DA prosecuting drug organizations from 92-96 under Dennis Vacco whom Ron Fino suggests was placed by the Buffalo mob. Interesting he had several uncles involved in the mob, a couple of them heavily involved and one who was involved in drug trafficking and described by LE as well respected with mafiosos on both sides of the border.

Then there is the Niagara Gazette article where their intern Jessica Wasmund who appears to have gotten most of her story from Coppola and quotes him as saying, “Maggadino’s death was the nail in the coffin” of the Buffalo mob and the writes:

“Today, despite rumors that what was once the Magaddino family still operates here, federal organized crime investigators say those tales just aren’t true. They say small numbers of loosely associated individuals may still get together to commit what once were Mafia style crimes, but it’s not like the old days.”

But she doesn’t attribute this to any particular Federal LE officer or agency.

Then there is the Niagara Falls Reporter opinion rag article called the Mob May Be Dead but Not Forgotten written by Mike Hudson. In it he indicates the feds adjusted the family chart in 2006 to reflect that Joe Todaro Jr had stepped down from acting boss and that Leonard Falzone was promoted to the position with Nicoletti becoming the underboss.

Here is the problem with Hudson’s article:
1. The paper is an opinion rag
2. Hudson is alleged to be a Todaro associate
3. The 2006 chart I requested from the FBI does not show Falzone in the acting position. Instead it lists him as a soldier.
4. Also that 2006 chart does not show Nicoletti as the underboss and instead lists him as a soldier.

Then their is the 2017 article by Dan Herbeck called “The Mafia in WNY is All but Dead.” In it he quotes SAC Cohen:

“Some of the individuals who were leaders of the Mafia are still around,” Cohen said. “But their organized crime activities don’t exist anymore. Some of them have legitimate businesses that we know of.”

But then he has written several investigative pieces that suggest otherwise after new information has come out.

Then there is the most recent statement by federal prosecutor Joe Tripi who states his opinion that the Bongiovanni trial and conviction proves IOC in Buffalo still exists.

[Ivan]

"They say small numbers of loosely associated individuals may still get together to commit what once were Mafia style crimes, but it’s not like the old days."

This is probably the best description I've read of the "no longer viable but (possibly) not completely dead" familes like Buffalo and Detroit. It's an in-between category, after Philly/Chicago/NJ/NE but ahead of like San Francisco, not the last stage of family extinction but not a viable family, either.

Here's how I rank them in my own personal system:

1st Tier: The New York families. Big, serious, structured families that law enforcement cares about.
2nd Tier: Chicago and other "still viable/structured" smaller families.
3rd Tier: No longer viable/structured but still seem to have people doing some things. E.g., Buffalo.
4th Tier: Made guy(s) still alive but not doing anything. Eg., Cleveland.
5th Tier: No living made guys. E.g., Dallas.

[PTown]

Thanks all for the good replies.

Question though: why do a couple of you say Detroit is near-defunct. Relatively recent news articles say things like

“ longstanding picture of stability and efficiency in an underworld landscape littered with defectors, dissidents and dim-bulb thugs.”

That it’s run like an ndrangheta ndrine where most of the folks are related by blood and marriage.

That it has like 35-45 MM, and continues to make more.

That Detroit mobsters are very wealthy.

That Michigan police can’t wiretap, unlike most of the states.

And that the Partnership has remained stable and is still considered a top criminal organization within the state.

So why do folks think it’s close to defunct?

[PTown]

Thanks all for the good replies.

Question though: why do a couple of you say Detroit is near-defunct. Relatively recent news articles say things like

“ longstanding picture of stability and efficiency in an underworld landscape littered with defectors, dissidents and dim-bulb thugs.”

That it’s run like an ndrangheta ndrine where most of the folks are related by blood and marriage.

That it has like 35-45 MM, and continues to make more.

That Detroit mobsters are very wealthy.

That Michigan police can’t wiretap, unlike most of the states.

And that the Partnership has remained stable and is still considered a top criminal organization within the state.

So why do folks think it’s close to defunct?

[Pogo The Clown]

That is just fluff you can find on the internet on just about every group. Fact is there hasn’t been a real LCN case in Detroit since 2006 (and even that was a small time case) and out of the 29 or 30 remaining members in the 1990s over 20 of them are dead. In all probability Detroits membership is down to the single digits. In addition to all of that Detroit was no longer being included among the remaining families on some KE lists from the late 2000s (Buffalo didn’t appear on any lists from the 2000s).


Pogo

[johnny_scootch]

3rd Tier: No longer viable/structured but still seem to have people doing some things. E.g., Buffalo.

You don’t agree that having a Boss, Underboss, at least one Captain and several soldiers and associates that we know about counts as structured?

Imo The Buffalo family seems to be most like Chicago at this point in time. Both viable both structured but absolute shells of their former selves.

[Newyorkempire]

3rd Tier: No longer viable/structured but still seem to have people doing some things. E.g., Buffalo.

You don’t agree that having a Boss, Underboss, at least one Captain and several soldiers and associates that we know about counts as structured?

Imo The Buffalo family seems to be most like Chicago at this point in time. Both viable both structured but absolute shells of their former selves.

No. To them having all those things you just listed means that they are bobbing for apples with new dentures during the yearly fall festival in the Poconos

[Coloboy]

My knowledge is mostly Chicago, so I'll comment in regard to that family.

While the family is infinitely smaller, less impactful, and less dangerous than it ever was, I think it going totally extinct is a long way off. The Outfit is comprised of extremely tight, generations long, familial and social relationships. For many of these families, it's a true "family" business. The bonds are tight and deep, and extremely secretive. For those reasons, it will likely continue, in a reduced form, for a good while.

Frank Calabrese, one of the primary made member defendants in the 2007 Family Secrets trial, was caught on a bug talking about the structure and the future of outfit in the year 2000. He discussed how the leadership was intentionally streamlining things, with fewer made members, and tighter controls. The intent was to have more to go around for made guys, and to keep security tight. He likened the structure to a "christmas tree" type chart. A vertical setup with fewer players, as opposed to the wider, more expansive type mob charts we are used to seeing.