Pete DiFronzo dead from Corona Virus

[Cheech]

In 6 months Hailbritian will make a thread about Peter Difronzo dying

[Rocco]

I do not believe that Rocco Lombardo has been active since The Crazy Horse II indictments.

[Snakes]

I dont believe Gary Gags is dead. He was mentioned by Mags in one of the Fosco interviews a four or five years ago as being someone he was concerned about offending by giving the interview. My guess is he should be considered a likely member. I also find it very hard to fathom that Spina is not also a member.

Yeah I haven't seen anything else stating Gary Gags died so I wanted to throw it out there to see if anyone else had further info. I'm assuming myself that he's alive until proven otherwise.

And agreed on Spina, but stranger things have happened in the world of the Chicago Mafia. I would've absolutely assumed that Marco D'Amico was made as well. If Spina was made, and Vena for that matter, the questions remain of when and by whom and with what sponsors, etc. Seems pretty likely to me that there were making ceremonies that Nicky Calabrese hadn't disclosed either because he didn't know about them or they occurred after he got pinched.

We just have so little to go on for Chicago and huge holes remain in our understanding of their inner workings and hierarchy for significant periods of time. Hopefully some of this will be cleared up in future unredacted versions of the documents that Snakes has referenced. Otherwise we're left waiting for one of the remaining made guys to flip and spill the beans. It's fully possible that the guys left take their secrets to the grave like Lombardo and so many others, and we may very well remain in the dark about much of the Outfit's history.

I don't think he would have even known about the 1988 ceremony if DiForti hadn't been a part of it. I believe that's the whole reason LaPietra forwarded him the info. I believe Nick even went so far as to say that LaPietra was not supposed to have disclosed that information. Chicago obviously had its share of gossips but by keeping the number of made members down, not having more than two significant made snitches within the past 30ish years (only one of whom fully cooperated), and keeping the disclosure of information to a minimum or on a need-to-know basis (even as far as bosses were concerned) has made it extremely difficult to discern the structure of the organization as well as who was made. Obviously, there are sources known only to the FBI (at least until a few more guys croak) that allow for a better understanding but none that has been readily available to the public. All of the above have made it extremely difficult to get an accurate hold on things, even in comparison to tight-lipped families on the East Coast, like the Genovese (whose hierarchy is similarly muddled).

I think this is probably correct. As I recall, he even said there were made guys he heard about in later years that he didnt know at all.

The feds have had zero reason to release an updated number, if there is one, it would be weird if they did.

Yes it seems like the outfit purposely kept a lot of that information unknown to other members. For instance they would use guys from different crews who didn’t know each other. I believe on the spilotro brothers hit there were 3 guys that he had know idea who they were and I don’t believe were ever identified. I believe it was the 3 guys that killed tony. If I remember correctly nick, Louie eboli, and Lou mArino killed Michael while the other 3 guys killed Tony. Contrary to popular belief according to nick, carlisi, ferriola, difronzo, and marcello were upstairs while the brothers were killed in the basement and did not take part in the actual killing

In addition a separate crew, Chicago heights buried them to keep the guys who killed them from knowing where they were buried

Re-reading the FS testimony there's no doubt about this to me anymore. They're starting him out by asking him to testify about structure and he's describing the various crews. They ask him about Grand Avenue and he says Lombardo is the crew boss...but that he didnt know anyone else in it...just that one of them was named "Jimmy". And this is a guy who was made 20 years prior to his testimony give or take.

Where can I read the testimony? plz n thx

They used to have the FS trial exhibits and other items available on the IL US Attorney's site. They even had audio recordings, I recall they had a wire recording of Tony Spilotro and Frankie Schweihs for example. These don't seem to be available anymore on justice.gov or the IL North USAO archive site.

Anyone know if these are still available to the public?

They are not. You have to request the transcripts from the court reporter and it is generally quite expensive.

[Antiliar]

They used to have the FS trial exhibits and other items available on the IL US Attorney's site. They even had audio recordings, I recall they had a wire recording of Tony Spilotro and Frankie Schweihs for example. These don't seem to be available anymore on justice.gov or the IL North USAO archive site.

Anyone know if these are still available to the public?
[/quote]

Yes, the Family Secrets trial exhibits are still available (for free) through the Internet Archive wayback machine here: https://web.archive.org/web/20120226031 ... wingNotice

[Pete]

They used to have the FS trial exhibits and other items available on the IL US Attorney's site. They even had audio recordings, I recall they had a wire recording of Tony Spilotro and Frankie Schweihs for example. These don't seem to be available anymore on justice.gov or the IL North USAO archive site.

Anyone know if these are still available to the public?

Yes, the Family Secrets trial exhibits are still available (for free) through the Internet Archive wayback machine here: https://web.archive.org/web/20120226031 ... wingNotice
[/quote]

Do the videos still load for you guys? I can read the transcripts but the video and audio doesn’t pop for me anymore

[funkster]

Agreed - I've always felt the crews in Chicago were very much like different families - some interacted, many didn't.

I would only add however, that Nick C didn't seem much of a 'go-getter' like his brother - who certainly knew everyone in various crews or at least who other made guys were - that is clear from the video recordings of convos with his son where he talks about Joey West/East and Spilotro, Centracchio and some of these other guys. Some of these made guys were real earners who went out and made connections - other guys like Nick seem to have just sat back and did what they were told. Nick was a worker - not an earner - I don't think the workers were told much.

Nick also said he knew the Spilotros who worked for Lombardo, right? Jimmy was clearly - Jimmy Legs D'Antonio. I think Cozzo was more of a lackey.

Yep, with you. I think it depended on who you were.

Oddly, when asked directly about Grand he doesn't mention the Spilotros. He simply says he knew Lombardo was the "capo" and that there were some other guys whose names he didnt remember or know. Said he thought one of them was named "Jimmy" who was a tall guy. Clearly referring to Legs.

[funkster]

Agreed - I've always felt the crews in Chicago were very much like different families - some interacted, many didn't.

I would only add however, that Nick C didn't seem much of a 'go-getter' like his brother - who certainly knew everyone in various crews or at least who other made guys were - that is clear from the video recordings of convos with his son where he talks about Joey West/East and Spilotro, Centracchio and some of these other guys. Some of these made guys were real earners who went out and made connections - other guys like Nick seem to have just sat back and did what they were told. Nick was a worker - not an earner - I don't think the workers were told much.

Nick also said he knew the Spilotros who worked for Lombardo, right? Jimmy was clearly - Jimmy Legs D'Antonio. I think Cozzo was more of a lackey.

Yep, with you. I think it depended on who you were.

Oddly, when asked directly about Grand he doesn't mention the Spilotros. He simply says he knew Lombardo was the "capo" and that there were some other guys whose names he didnt remember or know. Said he thought one of them was named "Jimmy" who was a tall guy. Clearly referring to Legs.

Also, he was shown the Last Supper photo and he only knew Dom DiBella as a guy named "Dominic" that he never met.

[Snakes]

Agreed - I've always felt the crews in Chicago were very much like different families - some interacted, many didn't.

I would only add however, that Nick C didn't seem much of a 'go-getter' like his brother - who certainly knew everyone in various crews or at least who other made guys were - that is clear from the video recordings of convos with his son where he talks about Joey West/East and Spilotro, Centracchio and some of these other guys. Some of these made guys were real earners who went out and made connections - other guys like Nick seem to have just sat back and did what they were told. Nick was a worker - not an earner - I don't think the workers were told much.

Nick also said he knew the Spilotros who worked for Lombardo, right? Jimmy was clearly - Jimmy Legs D'Antonio. I think Cozzo was more of a lackey.

It was definitely Jimmy D'Antonio because Nick described him as being tall.

[funkster]

Something happen to Wemette? Havent seen him spam the fb pages in awhile.

[PolackTony]

Something happen to Wemette? Havent seen him spam the fb pages in awhile.

Last I saw he posted a bit over a week ago. That is kind of a gap for him I guess.

[funkster]

Ah. Maybe I just havent noticed.

This is probably a tough ask, but any of you hardcore researchers (Snakes?) can estimate ow many major RICO indictments involving the Outfit came down through the years? I'm guessing the majority came in early and mid 80s.

[Snakes]

Ah. Maybe I just havent noticed.

This is probably a tough ask, but any of you hardcore researchers (Snakes?) can estimate ow many major RICO indictments involving the Outfit came down through the years? I'm guessing the majority came in early and mid 80s.

Major RICO indictments? I'll give it a whirl. This doesn't include gambling cases for guys like Cortina or Angelini or stuff like Arnold and Grieco obstruction of justice from 1980. I also did not include Rudy Fratto, Matassa, or other small cases that were not tried as Outfit or Outfit-controlled operations. Did not include Harry Aleman murder trial as that was not tried as a RICO case. Most of the below were, I believe:

1981: Tony Accardo and Al Pilotto labor racketeering case
1982: Joey Lombardo and Allen Dorfman bribery
1983: Tony Spilotro Vegas racketeering case
1983: Casino skim case involving Aiuppa, Cerone, LaPietra, Lombardo, and Spilotro
1985: Joseph DiVarco racketeering case
1988: Albert Tocco racketeering case
1990: Ferriola Street Crew
1990: "Operation Safebet" (Outfit Prositution, credit card scam; involved Victor Spilotro)
1990: Pat Marcy and Fred Roti
1991: Chicago Heights street crew (Palermo, Guzzino, et. al.)
1991: Lenny Patrick (Gus Alex) Street Crew
1992: Rincon Indian Reservation, California (Carlisi, DiFronzo, et. al.)
1992: Sam Carlisi Street Crew
1993: Michael Castaldo (this was somewhat minor but I went ahead threw it on here)
1993: 26th Street Crew (Joseph LaMantia)
1994: Marco D'Amico Street Crew
1995: Frank Calabrese Street Crew
1999: Anthony Centracchio
2002: Cicero public corruption (Betty Loren-Maltese, Mike Spano, et. al.)
2005: Family Secrets
2009: Mike Sarno

Maybe I'm forgetting something obvious but those seem to be the major ones.

[Antiliar]

Something happen to Wemette? Havent seen him spam the fb pages in awhile.

He still posts everyday or almost everyday, usually at night. He posted yesterday.

[funkster]

Something happen to Wemette? Havent seen him spam the fb pages in awhile.

He still posts everyday or almost everyday, usually at night. He posted yesterday.

Ah. Facebook's algorithm no doubt.

[funkster]

Ah. Maybe I just havent noticed.

This is probably a tough ask, but any of you hardcore researchers (Snakes?) can estimate ow many major RICO indictments involving the Outfit came down through the years? I'm guessing the majority came in early and mid 80s.

Major RICO indictments? I'll give it a whirl. This doesn't include gambling cases for guys like Cortina or Angelini or stuff like Arnold and Grieco obstruction of justice from 1980. I also did not include Rudy Fratto, Matassa, or other small cases that were not tried as Outfit or Outfit-controlled operations. Did not include Harry Aleman murder trial as that was not tried as a RICO case. Most of the below were, I believe:

1981: Tony Accardo and Al Pilotto labor racketeering case
1982: Joey Lombardo and Allen Dorfman bribery
1983: Tony Spilotro Vegas racketeering case
1983: Casino skim case involving Aiuppa, Cerone, LaPietra, Lombardo, and Spilotro
1985: Joseph DiVarco racketeering case
1988: Albert Tocco racketeering case
1990: Ferriola Street Crew
1990: "Operation Safebet" (Outfit Prositution, credit card scam; involved Victor Spilotro)
1990: Pat Marcy and Fred Roti
1991: Chicago Heights street crew (Palermo, Guzzino, et. al.)
1991: Lenny Patrick (Gus Alex) Street Crew
1992: Rincon Indian Reservation, California (Carlisi, DiFronzo, et. al.)
1992: Sam Carlisi Street Crew
1993: Michael Castaldo (this was somewhat minor but I went ahead threw it on here)
1993: 26th Street Crew (Joseph LaMantia)
1994: Marco D'Amico Street Crew
1995: Frank Calabrese Street Crew
1999: Anthony Centracchio
2002: Cicero public corruption (Betty Loren-Maltese, Mike Spano, et. al.)
2005: Family Secrets
2009: Mike Sarno

Maybe I'm forgetting something obvious but those seem to be the major ones.

Awesome, thanks. That looks right to me. Kind of what I thought, relatively few for the most part.