Existing Families (2022)

[Angelo Santino]

I get that a single member borgata is still viable as far as LCN rules go. What about smaller families that have no members that are officially plugged in to the network? (i.e formally introduced to guys from other groups)?

All existing small families members are tied into the national/international network

I might've phrased the question confusingly.

What I meant was, if a withering family has inducted members who at some point in the past were formally introduced to guys from other borgatas, but those introductions/contacts are not valid anymore (say, a guy who was their point of contact in another city passed away - basically they have no meaningful connections to groups in other cities and guys in those cities couldn't officially reach out to them even if they wanted to), should we then consider a group like this defunct? Meaning, LA despite having only one confirmed/active member might be considered viable in LCN terms since it's plugged in to an inter-family network, while Kansas City, which has 10 members, but none of whom have any contact with made men from other parts of the country, could be considered basically defunct

They would not be defunct. If Kansas City wanted to contact the other Families to inform them that they are no longer LCN nor wish to have any further contact the other families would say OK. I don't think they would try and move in. But this is all speculative as it's never happened.

Within the Sicilian Mafia, it operated slightly different based on region. Same hierarchy, same operandi, just different social patterns. Palermitans like to meet everybody and are considered city slickers to the mountain boys in central Palermo Province who make it a point to hide who their members are from other families. You go further to Agrigento and it's the deep south, stay in your lane, we'll work together when we have to but don't get comfortable. Trapani who the hell knows, they love their land and they network but very selectively.

These regional traits were important to America and despite 3 generations of Americanization semblances of it remain. Tampa and the DeCavs and the Arcuri Crew were heavily Agrigentini from specific towns and the boss was out in front as the representative but its members are more obscure. Michael DiLeonardo even said they never really knew all who was in Arcuri's crew. There was a member whose never been identified born in Sicily, here since the 50's who died within the last few years, his name has never come out and will never come out.

Heavily Palermitan Families often brought in members of other cities and even out of Sicily. The Mafia is clannish but the Palermitans are open compared to the Agrigentini.

I said all that because what you're describing in KC theoretical kinda has always gone on to some degree in terms of some groups wanting to do their own thing.

We know that members have to be introduced to each other by a 3rd party member, this is one rule that almost never gets broken. I'm sure someone has examples of it but I only recall Veasey in Phila. who wasn't explained the protocol approaching people saying, "I'm in the mafia, if you are too then tell me." He was reprimanded for it.

I guess, if in 300 years there is only 2 members left who were never introduced formally as members and they wanted to talk LCN, maybe they'd revert to a coded Q&a or that would be the end of it. It's all speculation.

Maybe I answered what you were asking?

[sisterray]

That was exactly what I was trying to get at - many thanks for the extensive answer.

[Angelo Santino]

That was exactly what I was trying to get at - many thanks for the extensive answer.

The Gambinos, headed up by DiLeonardo went to LA to meet with Boss Pete Milano. De Jure The Milano and the Gotti Family are equals but De Facto the Gambinos are Coke and LA is Faygo. They met to discuss the Gams doing business out there, Milano thought he was bigger than he was until DiLeonardo told him if we want to come in, we're coming in. That is not to say that larger families just shit all over the smaller ones but politically it pays to be open and not overplay your hand. The fact that the Gambinos contacted the Milanos before the planned "move in" is a sign of recognition within the Mafia. They wouldn't do that for the Crips, Russians or whoever else. Had the Gams went in without contacting Pete first, they would lose any sitdown over the matter. Instead they conducted themselves within proper protocol and if a sitdown had to occur over a dispute, it would be over Pete's greediness and not the Gambinos intrusiveness into other territories. Had Pete just agreed and perhaps politely negotiated some terms more favorable to him, he could have generated another revenue stream just by his being LA rep and getting a percentage.

[B.]

Great breakdown up above CC.

The LA situation is also a great example...

Formal = Contact the boss of the local Family before visiting because that's the rule
Practical = the Gambinos are more powerful than Milano so his status means little

One of the biggest takeaways from Pennisi's podcast for me is how much formal protocol is still followed. Sure that's NYC but it was surprising how much emphasis he placed on it as a random recruit who had no background in the life and was only active a few years. Some of his stories show that formal vs. practical dynamic too but what's interesting is how much they at least play lip service to the formalities still.

[Angelo Santino]

Great breakdown up above CC.

The LA situation is also a great example...

Formal = Contact the boss of the local Family before visiting because that's the rule
Practical = the Gambinos are more powerful than Milano so his status means little

One of the biggest takeaways from Pennisi's podcast for me is how much formal protocol is still followed. Sure that's NYC but it was surprising how much emphasis he placed on it as a random recruit who had no background in the life and was only active a few years. Some of his stories show that formal vs. practical dynamic too but what's interesting is how much they at least play lip service to the formalities still.

In America, there's never been a City that went defunct in say, 1970 and in 2000 it was decided to "reconstitute it" either by sending members there or making new ones there and forming a famiglia decades after the "original" one ceased.

Do we have evidence of that ever happening in Sicily? According to Calderone after or during (been awhile) WW2 the families were inactive and then reformed. But this was a short term thing and not an era that declined to nothing and then a significant time later, economics and need led to the need for a famiglia to be formed. Be a good question to ask Michael. It never happened in his lifetime but he knows what it would entail if such a thing were to occur. Wiseguy would be a good addition to such a call. Loyal opposition and all.

[johnny_scootch]

One of the biggest takeaways from Pennisi's podcast for me is how much formal protocol is still followed. Sure that's NYC but it was surprising how much emphasis he placed on it as a random recruit who had no background in the life and was only active a few years.

Pennisi was around wiseguys since he was a little kid. Guys like Johnny Santore, Tony Moscatiello & Blaise Corozzo. Plus he did all those years in the can where protocol is probably even more important than on the street.

[furiofromnaples]

Great breakdown up above CC.

The LA situation is also a great example...

Formal = Contact the boss of the local Family before visiting because that's the rule
Practical = the Gambinos are more powerful than Milano so his status means little

One of the biggest takeaways from Pennisi's podcast for me is how much formal protocol is still followed. Sure that's NYC but it was surprising how much emphasis he placed on it as a random recruit who had no background in the life and was only active a few years. Some of his stories show that formal vs. practical dynamic too but what's interesting is how much they at least play lip service to the formalities still.

In America, there's never been a City that went defunct in say, 1970 and in 2000 it was decided to "reconstitute it" either by sending members there or making new ones there and forming a famiglia decades after the "original" one ceased.

Do we have evidence of that ever happening in Sicily? According to Calderone after or during (been awhile) WW2 the families were inactive and then reformed. But this was a short term thing and not an era that declined to nothing and then a significant time later, economics and need led to the need for a famiglia to be formed. Be a good question to ask Michael. It never happened in his lifetime but he knows what it would entail if such a thing were to occur. Wiseguy would be a good addition to such a call. Loyal opposition and all.

In Italy when a mob family or a camorra clan be disbanded there are someone ready to film the void. An example was the Polverinos that tooke the place in the 1990s after Nuvolettas dismise.
Today why an old wiseguy should ask permission to rebuilt his family?
The Fbi would be ready to destroy it,again. Now the criminals with an italian surname dont need to be made and also to be made is like put a target on himself and risk more harsh sentences due the Rico.
The old traditions are dead and many italians become bikers or stay around the old timers doing the same rackets:bookmaking,shylock,drugs etc without a boss to send an envelope.

[Angelo Santino]

Great breakdown up above CC.

The LA situation is also a great example...

Formal = Contact the boss of the local Family before visiting because that's the rule
Practical = the Gambinos are more powerful than Milano so his status means little

One of the biggest takeaways from Pennisi's podcast for me is how much formal protocol is still followed. Sure that's NYC but it was surprising how much emphasis he placed on it as a random recruit who had no background in the life and was only active a few years. Some of his stories show that formal vs. practical dynamic too but what's interesting is how much they at least play lip service to the formalities still.

In America, there's never been a City that went defunct in say, 1970 and in 2000 it was decided to "reconstitute it" either by sending members there or making new ones there and forming a famiglia decades after the "original" one ceased.

Do we have evidence of that ever happening in Sicily? According to Calderone after or during (been awhile) WW2 the families were inactive and then reformed. But this was a short term thing and not an era that declined to nothing and then a significant time later, economics and need led to the need for a famiglia to be formed. Be a good question to ask Michael. It never happened in his lifetime but he knows what it would entail if such a thing were to occur. Wiseguy would be a good addition to such a call. Loyal opposition and all.

In Italy when a mob family or a camorra clan be disbanded there are someone ready to film the void. An example was the Polverinos that tooke the place in the 1990s after Nuvolettas dismise.
Today why an old wiseguy should ask permission to rebuilt his family?
The Fbi would be ready to destroy it,again. Now the criminals with an italian surname dont need to be made and also to be made is like put a target on himself and risk more harsh sentences due the Rico.
The old traditions are dead and many italians become bikers or stay around the old timers doing the same rackets:bookmaking,shylock,drugs etc without a boss to send an envelope.

Ok.
Because if that were his intention he would want to be connected to the rest of the network.
Do we have evidence of the FBI succeeding in destroying Todaro, Loose in CL or Gambino in LA? The FBI has gotten fishy within the last few years when it comes to Mob cases. Some they aren't labeling as mob and others like this ECLCN label.
You don't get RICO'd for being a member of the Mafia, you get RICO'd for participating in a racketeering act. It's not illegal to be a mafia member, unlike in Italy.
Have you spoken to anyone who was in the tradition? I have and I would beg to differ.

[furiofromnaples]

Great breakdown up above CC.

The LA situation is also a great example...

Formal = Contact the boss of the local Family before visiting because that's the rule
Practical = the Gambinos are more powerful than Milano so his status means little

One of the biggest takeaways from Pennisi's podcast for me is how much formal protocol is still followed. Sure that's NYC but it was surprising how much emphasis he placed on it as a random recruit who had no background in the life and was only active a few years. Some of his stories show that formal vs. practical dynamic too but what's interesting is how much they at least play lip service to the formalities still.

In America, there's never been a City that went defunct in say, 1970 and in 2000 it was decided to "reconstitute it" either by sending members there or making new ones there and forming a famiglia decades after the "original" one ceased.

Do we have evidence of that ever happening in Sicily? According to Calderone after or during (been awhile) WW2 the families were inactive and then reformed. But this was a short term thing and not an era that declined to nothing and then a significant time later, economics and need led to the need for a famiglia to be formed. Be a good question to ask Michael. It never happened in his lifetime but he knows what it would entail if such a thing were to occur. Wiseguy would be a good addition to such a call. Loyal opposition and all.

In Italy when a mob family or a camorra clan be disbanded there are someone ready to film the void. An example was the Polverinos that tooke the place in the 1990s after Nuvolettas dismise.
Today why an old wiseguy should ask permission to rebuilt his family?
The Fbi would be ready to destroy it,again. Now the criminals with an italian surname dont need to be made and also to be made is like put a target on himself and risk more harsh sentences due the Rico.
The old traditions are dead and many italians become bikers or stay around the old timers doing the same rackets:bookmaking,shylock,drugs etc without a boss to send an envelope.

Ok.
Because if that were his intention he would want to be connected to the rest of the network.
Do we have evidence of the FBI succeeding in destroying Todaro, Loose in CL or Gambino in LA? The FBI has gotten fishy within the last few years when it comes to Mob cases. Some they aren't labeling as mob and others like this ECLCN label.
You don't get RICO'd for being a member of the Mafia, you get RICO'd for participating in a racketeering act. It's not illegal to be a mafia member, unlike in Italy.
Have you spoken to anyone who was in the tradition? I have and I would beg to differ.

The Cleveland doesnt exist anymore,the Gambino are too big to be disbanded like a small family and the LE will ever try to disband first the crew all over the USA.
For the Todaro,they believed until Violi wiretrap that Buffalo was defunct and dont investigare on a defunct family.

Have you spoken to anyone who was in the tradition?

Nope. But if was like in italy the small families would be rebuilted after the last indians would have the ok to induct some new blood.

[B.]

One of the biggest takeaways from Pennisi's podcast for me is how much formal protocol is still followed. Sure that's NYC but it was surprising how much emphasis he placed on it as a random recruit who had no background in the life and was only active a few years.

Pennisi was around wiseguys since he was a little kid. Guys like Johnny Santore, Tony Moscatiello & Blaise Corozzo. Plus he did all those years in the can where protocol is probably even more important than on the street.

For sure, I meant he didn't have relatives who groomed him for membership at an early age or anything.

[CornerBoy]

16 - DeCavalcante
- Alleged boss is a third gen mafioso + father was underboss, cousin is the current Genovese boss. Family is heavily kinship based

wHO ARE these ppl?

[B.]

Charlie Majuri

[Angelo Santino]

The Cleveland doesnt exist anymore,the Gambino are too big to be disbanded like a small family and the LE will ever try to disband first the crew all over the USA.
For the Todaro,they believed until Violi wiretrap that Buffalo was defunct and dont investigare on a defunct family.

Have you spoken to anyone who was in the tradition?

Nope. But if was like in italy the small families would be rebuilted after the last indians would have the ok to induct some new blood.

Russel Papalardo is said to have replaced Joe Loose. If that is true, the Family probably exists according to the mafia's own members.
Todaro Sr was on their radar and died peacefully.
Who says it isn't like it is in Italy? These Families don't put out a press release regarding membership, the family boss doesn't fret that the internet thinks his family is a glorified crew. That is not to say that these families are growing, but they are declining slower than some may think.

[Etna]

Great breakdown up above CC.

The LA situation is also a great example...

Formal = Contact the boss of the local Family before visiting because that's the rule
Practical = the Gambinos are more powerful than Milano so his status means little

One of the biggest takeaways from Pennisi's podcast for me is how much formal protocol is still followed. Sure that's NYC but it was surprising how much emphasis he placed on it as a random recruit who had no background in the life and was only active a few years. Some of his stories show that formal vs. practical dynamic too but what's interesting is how much they at least play lip service to the formalities still.

In America, there's never been a City that went defunct in say, 1970 and in 2000 it was decided to "reconstitute it" either by sending members there or making new ones there and forming a famiglia decades after the "original" one ceased.

Do we have evidence of that ever happening in Sicily? According to Calderone after or during (been awhile) WW2 the families were inactive and then reformed. But this was a short term thing and not an era that declined to nothing and then a significant time later, economics and need led to the need for a famiglia to be formed. Be a good question to ask Michael. It never happened in his lifetime but he knows what it would entail if such a thing were to occur. Wiseguy would be a good addition to such a call. Loyal opposition and all.

Chris - Check out the bold portion above, please. Was the 2000 case decided in the last commission meeting? What about the 1970 case? Do we have any examples of them attempting to "reconstitute" a family?

[Angelo Santino]

Great breakdown up above CC.

The LA situation is also a great example...

Formal = Contact the boss of the local Family before visiting because that's the rule
Practical = the Gambinos are more powerful than Milano so his status means little

One of the biggest takeaways from Pennisi's podcast for me is how much formal protocol is still followed. Sure that's NYC but it was surprising how much emphasis he placed on it as a random recruit who had no background in the life and was only active a few years. Some of his stories show that formal vs. practical dynamic too but what's interesting is how much they at least play lip service to the formalities still.

[b]In America, there's never been a City that went defunct in say, 1970 and in 2000 it was decided to "reconstitute it" either by sending members there or making new ones there and forming a famiglia decades after the "original" one ceased.[/b]

Do we have evidence of that ever happening in Sicily? According to Calderone after or during (been awhile) WW2 the families were inactive and then reformed. But this was a short term thing and not an era that declined to nothing and then a significant time later, economics and need led to the need for a famiglia to be formed. Be a good question to ask Michael. It never happened in his lifetime but he knows what it would entail if such a thing were to occur. Wiseguy would be a good addition to such a call. Loyal opposition and all.

Chris - Check out the bold portion above, please. Was the 2000 case decided in the last commission meeting? What about the 1970 case? Do we have any examples of them attempting to "reconstitute" a family?

No, see the red.