Double Affiliation

[Lupara]

The question is when was Violi made into the Bonanno family? Most certainly not before '57 but apparantly before the books reopened. Would he have been made on the sneak? If he could introduce himself as a friend of ours in Sicily and arrange for an audiance with Settecasi it seems like his membership was generally recognised.

[B.]

Thanks for sharing that. I was going from the English translation of Calderone's book.

Even if Violi was asking Calderone about the existence of mafia "men of honor" in Calabria, I shouldn't assume that this represented Violi's full knowledge of activities in Calabria. It's entirely possible he was aware of and/or knew 'ndrangheta/Camorra members in Calabria, but was asking Calderone if there were also "men of honor" in the Sicilian sense living there as well. That's assuming Calderone even reported that part of it accurately.

But if I may say or clarify, Calderone took it as a sign of ignorance on Violi's part because "there has never been any Men of Honor in Calabria." We don't know what Violi did or did not know.

I can't speak for Canada, but the US mafia was essentially "cut off" from the Sicilian one beginning in the 30's: the great depression, immigration regulation and other reasons. Either coincidentally or due to, there were underworld reformations as well, members weren't transferring with ease, Sicilian mafiosi weren't arriving in droves (which had to be accomidated in the '00's-20's.) From those events was where American Cosa Nostra was borne. The Mafia was "the old timers," the Sicilians, whereas the contemporary American Mafia, in NYC, didn't have the same Sicilian genetic makeup they once did, and when they opened the doors to mainlanders well- the rule goes if you're good enough to become a member you're good enough to run a Family- which elevated many non-Sicilians... Now going to the theoretical, if you were born in Calabria or Naples or Trieste and grew up in a NY neighborhood where a group was operating and you eventually join, your perspective and worldview would differ greatly from say Bill Bonanno who's Father and Family were primarily from one Sicilian town.

Drawing back to Canada, I'm largely ignorant, but there's a good chance ties were severed for two or three decades before being reintroduced. Violi may not have known the entire history behind Italy's Mafias since they have just as plenty in common as they do not and in the new world things long since merged into one entity.

We know that Sicilians were able to transfer with ease into the AM, the same cannot be said for the mainland groups, Furio Giunta being the exception . There's a report that claims Anastasia was trying to allow Calabrians to "transfer" into the AM as well. It's vague but there could be something to that. Since by this time it was considered Cosa Nostra and not an exclusive Sicilian brotherhood it would make sense that if Sicilian mafiosi could be accepted then why not Calabrian 'ndranghetisti. Just a thought.

If you go outside of the mafia and into Italian American history from a cultural perspective, it took an average of 3 years for Italo-dialect speakers to start speaking formal Italian and about 10 years before they were speaking English. When people from Sicily or Calabria arrived in America they were regarded as Italians and thus adopted that cultural identity to the point of celebrating holidays and other customs not exclusively revered in their hometowns. There was a drive to rise up and that meant regarding your Italo-peers as part of your group, not as an "outsider." The underworld followed this same trajectory, at least in the USA. Canada may have been different.

Good points all around, but I'm not sure about the point I bolded. In the past I would have agreed, but as more info has come out it seems to be a myth that the US mafia was "cut off" from the Sicilians after the 1930s. Angelo Bruno traveled there and was formally introduced to bosses and other members throughout the island, was met and driven around by Profaci soldier and future consigliere Benedetto D'Allessandro, his cousin was the Vallelunga boss who traveled here and was formally introduced as amici to the Philly membership and others around the US, and we know that members (or at least bosses) traveling to Sicily were supposed to check in with the Commission before traveling in case they had messages to send to the Sicilian mafia. It looks like Joe Bonanno also maintained strong ties to Sicilian mafia members and though we don't know the details, there seems to be recognition. There is the obvious DeCavalcante / Ribera example whose closeness seems like an exception, but it doesn't seem as "out there" as it used to. There was also the example of Antonino Pollina having direct contact with a Sicilian boss and he was told that this was a violation of protocol, as formal contact across the ocean was supposed to be arranged at a higher level, i.e. through bosses and the Commission.

One of the most telling things to me were the letters Frank Scalise sent to Sicilian mafia leaders in the 1950s. I posted a thread with excerpts from these some time ago and they honestly read almost exactly like the letters Morello was sending around the US decades earlier. They used euphemisms but clearly were discussing and updating each other on Sicilian mafiosi and mafia organizations via letter. Now, I know you were probably not meaning they were completely "cut off" and that the contact/fluidity between them was drastically reduced post-1930s which I 100% agree with, but I just want to make it clear they weren't as cut off as we've been led to believe over the years. This myth sort of plays into the Luciano myth as well, as the idea is that he wiped out the mustache petes and the new generation cut ties with the Sicilians, which might be true for Luciano's family. From what Valachi said in the Real Thing, Luciano didn't trust Sicilian mafiosi and tried to make some kind of rule against them associating with the US mafia, which looks to have been overwhelmingly upheld by the Genovese family and the Luccheses (which is interesting considering the Luccheses stayed mostly Sicilian/Corleonesi over the years, though it's ALSO interesting that they were originally one family). The Profacis look to have kept up some ties to Sicily through the 1950s but these ties weakened significantly over time and died out abruptly with the older generations. The Bonannos and Gambinos as we know kept up strong ties, with the Gambinos no doubt having those strong ties to this day.

However... in the families that did keep up ties to the Sicilian mafia post-1930, there is no doubt that things were not as fluid, there was less contact, and the protocol for transferring or even communicating at all were much more difficult, seemingly by design. It looks like the guys who maintained most of the contact with Sicily were older members who had been made in Sicily, had relatives there, and/or clearly remembered a time when things were much more fluid. Certain members also seemed to be deliberately positioned (whether it was their own doing, under the direction of their leaders, or just pure chance is unknown) to serve as intermediaries. With the younger generations, the guys made near the end of the Castellammarese War and later, you see a dramatic drop-off in Sicilian ties which reinforces the basic point you're making.

You and I have talked about this on here and on the phone so I'm positive we're on the same page and that you didn't mean they literally cut ties or cut off relationships between "both" mafias, but I just wanted to point all of this out since it relates to the subject of affiliation. And though the relationship between them changed over time, the evidence points to them still being the "same" mafia, in that they recognized each other as being essentially the same thing. In that sense, someone being recognized as amico nostra when visiting both in the US and Sicily is not an example of double affiliation. A good question would be if at any point mainland Italian organizations were recognized as the "same thing" as US mafiosi, but it's not as clear that there were Camorristi/'ndranghetesi with some kind of "dual affiliation" or who would otherwise be in a position to introduce US members to their people. If Giacomo Luppino was a "Camorrista" (which is the likely phonetic interpretation of a comment made by Magaddino) and a member of the Buffalo family, he would be a leading candidate. Maybe some older guys with ties to Anastasia, etc. could fit the bill, too -- maybe even Anastasia himself based on what you've said.

[B.]

The question is when was Violi made into the Bonanno family? Most certainly not before '57 but apparantly before the books reopened. Would he have been made on the sneak? If he could introduce himself as a friend of ours in Sicily and arrange for an audiance with Settecasi it seems like his membership was generally recognised.

I may have mentioned this in this thread and I know I've brought it up a lot, but one of the accusations against Joe Bonanno by the Commission was that he inducted members after the books were closed. DeCavalcante mentioned this on the tapes in his office. Magaddino also talked on his tapes about how he was okay with the idea of around 10 Bonanno members in Montreal, but that Bonanno had inducted more men and recruited 7 men in Toronto area, which upset Magaddino. We know from 1960s reports that the Bonanno Canada crew had around 20 members even back then and they kept this number up through Sciascia's murder (which put them at 19, according to Rizzuto via Vitale). Vitale expected 10 members, which tells us two things: Montreal possibly replenished their ranks without the admin's knowledge (assuming Vitale had been correctly briefed by Massino before he traveled) BUT they did stay within the limit previously established in the Cotroni era (i.e. Montreal under Sciascia/Rizzuto stuck to 20 members and didn't go crazy building up their crew). It looks like there was some kind of agreement maybe in the 1950s when Galante went there that there would be 10 members in Montreal, hence Magaddino's expectation, but Bonanno broke this rule and over time it created confusion even within the Bonanno family over how many members should be there.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence of Bonanno members in NYC being inducted post-1957, which points to this accusation being about the induction of Bonanno members elsewhere, like Canada or the west coast. I talked to JD a while back and he said that Patty DeFilippo was already a member in late 1976, but he hadn't seen any info about his actual date of induction. DeFilippo shows up on FBI lists as a suspected member in the 1960s by the time he is traveling to Canada (and coincidentally later settled on the west coast, where Bonanno may have recruited others post-1957) and his father had strong ties to Canada, so it honestly wouldn't surprise me if DeFilippo was among the members inducted after the books were closed as well. His father was among the last Bonanno members made in the 1950s and Patty was incredibly young then, so he wouldn't have been made in the 1950s. If he was made as the FBI suspected at the time, it seems possible he was inducted in Canada or the west coast in the early-mid 1960s. Maybe JD has since found info confirming that DeFilippo was made in the 1970s, but we do have some vague info about Bonanno inductions post-1957 and I have to wonder if DeFilippo was made in Canada with other members there. There doesn't appear to be any separation between the Montreal crew and the rest of the family's membership given that Joe Asaro looks to have become a soldier in the Montreal decina after he fled there, no different from a soldier in an NYC decina moving to a different NYC decina.

If all of that about post-1957s inductions is true, Violi would be an obvious choice as well. I made a thread a while back trying to figure out who some of the candidates would be for the 7 Toronto members who were inducted but all we had was wild speculation at best. It's possible these Toronto members were made post-1957, too, since they seem to have been brought in without Magaddino's approval. I am re-reading the Dubro's book on Paul Volpe right now and he mentions both the Luppinos and Vito DeFilippo as Volpe's sponsors, with Volpe being inducted in the early 1960s. Interestingly, the Magaddino transcript makes it sound like Luppino had joined up with, or was at least supportive of, Joe Bonanno at one point but the info was too vague. Also a very confusing part of the Dubro book is that while he says Volpe become an inducted mafia member in the 1960s, he says that the multiple reports of Volpe being a Magaddino member were incorrect. I am about halfway through and he hasn't mentioned what organization Volpe was inducted to, but he said very clearly that the Magaddino lists were incorrect though they added to Volpe's reputation. So even if Dubro is incorrect that adds an interesting angle to this.

[Lupara]

It seems like Volpe was inducted into the Bonannos if Dumbro is saying he wasn't a Magaddino member.

Haven't you shared a MF file that suggests Luppino was a Bonanno member? If this wasn't the case it makes more sense that Violi's sons (if they aren't Bonanno members) attended a Bonanno ceremony.

Do you know whether it ever happened that members of different New York families attended each other's ceremony? Did this not happen during the Castellammarese War? Though that could've just been circumstantial. Personally, since they are all part of the same "thing", I don't see why this can't be possible. But I don't see 'ndrangheta members being allowed to attend (La) Cosa Nostra cerenomies. If the Violis are Buffalo members (at this point I'm quite convinced they are LCN since that is more or less confirmed) it would certainly not be unthinkable.

[Angelo Santino]

I argue "cut off" because the ties between Palermo and the Gambinos/Colombos lost all relevance (and by the 50's to have a non-Palermitan head this group shows that). Before 1930 for 50+ years with the citrus trade (produce, fruit and wine) Palermo and Sicilian expats were strongly linked. This was their Vegas Skim if you will. If something occurred on either site of the Atlantic the heads on either side were aware of it, and sometimes even got involved. When Mineo arrived in the US he came with his brother in law who was a Palermo Boss. When the Morellos went to Sicily in an attempt to counter D'Aquila's death sentence they went to Palermo and were refused. When the Palermo mafia families went to war in the 20's D'Aquila sent money to one faction (coincidentally the same faction Maranzano backed before coming to the USA.) Apart from that, immigrating mafiosi were a factor. We're used to holds on making new members, "the books are closed" ect. But from 1890-1920's an emigrating Sicilian mafioso would have to be accommodated, that was a tap that couldn't be turned off. This all played the part in both Mafias being joined at the hip with each side affect/impacting the other. But new immigration laws, the rise of fascism in Europe certainly changed the landscape.

What came after.. relatives, an attempt to rebridge things in the 70's just simply cannot compare. So instead of "cut off," how about significantly marginalized?


But this thread isn't about US-IT. I don't know about how Canada and Italy fared. (I will say this but I cannot elaborate more, Toronto goes back to the 1890's, there's a continuity. Don't ask me to elaborate, it's there if you know where to look.) 2nd the Anastasia Calabrian thing came from a discussion here involving Philly and Joe Ida. B, do you know what I'm speaking of or where to locate it? Anastasia didn't use the 'N word, he said Calabrians if I recall, so perhaps I might have mischaracterized things.

[B.]

Significantly marginalized for sure. I just hestitate to go with "cut off" because there has been a lot of incorrect info over the years about them being literally cut off as one of the "new rules" after the Castellammare War (many of which seem to have been about as real as Bill Maher's "new rules").

I can't pull up the doc right now, but there are a couple files on MF that reference Joe Ida looking to create a Philly family decina in Italy. The Anastasia thing might have come up in one of the same transcripts, like Bruno and Magliocco's meeting, but I can't remember offhand. Will try to look for it soon. Also, haha at "N word"...

[Angelo Santino]

Significantly marginalized for sure. I just hestitate to go with "cut off" because there has been a lot of incorrect info over the years about them being literally cut off as one of the "new rules" after the Castellammare War (many of which seem to have been about as real as Bill Maher's "new rules").

I can't pull up the doc right now, but there are a couple files on MF that reference Joe Ida looking to create a Philly family decina in Italy. The Anastasia thing might have come up in one of the same transcripts, like Bruno and Magliocco's meeting, but I can't remember offhand. Will try to look for it soon. Also, haha at "N word"...

In my opinion, there's a significant difference between American mobsters visiting/maintaining their Mafia relatives in Sicily to that of both 'chapters' depending on one another for business, formal transfers and the following of edicts. The difference is striking, it would be like you maintaining a portion of a larger family business in the US with relatives in Europe handing that business' interests there as opposed to me visiting relatives in the summertime and finding out they are in the same field/or me being aware of it but having no significant factor in their activities.

In the 1960's and 70's they made attempts to rebridge the gap and the only thing that developed were drug routes but little if any 'merging' of the two organizations, in fact by all accounts it seems it was decided to keep them separate.

[NickleCity]

The question is when was Violi made into the Bonanno family? Most certainly not before '57 but apparantly before the books reopened. Would he have been made on the sneak? If he could introduce himself as a friend of ours in Sicily and arrange for an audiance with Settecasi it seems like his membership was generally recognised.

I must have missed something. Do we know Violi was made into the Bonanno Family? Given some things Edwards wrote I’m not sure when the Bonannos had firm control of Montreal. Seems to be some question as to who controls Mobtreal into the late ‘60s. If you have specifics about Violi being made in the Bonannos let please point me to them.

[NickleCity]

Never mind... it i just found a reference that by 72 Violi and Cotroni’s allegiances were fully to the Bonanno — before that, till at least Nov. 66, it appears Magaddino thought Montreal was his and they should be serving his interests instead of his cousin’s.

[Lupara]

The question is when was Violi made into the Bonanno family? Most certainly not before '57 but apparantly before the books reopened. Would he have been made on the sneak? If he could introduce himself as a friend of ours in Sicily and arrange for an audiance with Settecasi it seems like his membership was generally recognised.

I must have missed something. Do we know Violi was made into the Bonanno Family? Given some things Edwards wrote I’m not sure when the Bonannos had firm control of Montreal. Seems to be some question as to who controls Mobtreal into the late ‘60s. If you have specifics about Violi being made in the Bonannos let please point me to them.

Violi being named acting capo by Rastelli is sufficient evidence.

[Lupara]

Never mind... it i just found a reference that by 72 Violi and Cotroni’s allegiances were fully to the Bonanno — before that, till at least Nov. 66, it appears Magaddino thought Montreal was his and they should be serving his interests instead of his cousin’s.

There was a meeting between an envoy from the Bonanno faction (represented by Bill Bonanno) and the Cotronis (represented by Luigi Greco) in '66 during which the Cotronis reaffirmed their allegiance to the Bonannos. Magaddino was never in charge in Montreal except in his own imagination.

[NickleCity]

Never mind... it i just found a reference that by 72 Violi and Cotroni’s allegiances were fully to the Bonanno — before that, till at least Nov. 66, it appears Magaddino thought Montreal was his and they should be serving his interests instead of his cousin’s.

There was a meeting between an envoy from the Bonanno faction (represented by Bill Bonanno) and the Cotronis (represented by Luigi Greco) in '66 during which the Cotronis reaffirmed their allegiance to the Bonannos. Magaddino was never in charge in Montreal except in his own imagination.

Thanks Lupara. Yes, that is the meeting I was referring to. This is what Edwards writes about Magaddino’s perception of the meeting:

Magaddino said Violi and Cotroni had a choice: they could side with his cousin Giuseppe (Joe) Bonanno of New York City or with himself. They couldn’t be loyal to both. Bonanno and Magaddino might be related, but they couldn’t stand each other. Magaddino’s anger peaked as he told Luppino about a November 1966 meeting in Montreal between Bonanno’s son Salvatore (Bill) and Cotroni. Cotroni didn’t bother to tell Magaddino before attending the meeting, which also included half a dozen men from the New York Mafia. Magaddino heard that Bill Bonanno told Cotroni at the meeting that Montreal belonged to his father, Joe Bonanno. Vic the Egg’s response? He just sheepishly listened to Bonanno’s arrogance.

It was bad enough that Bonanno would say something so stupid, but for Cotroni to say nothing in Magaddino’s defence was unacceptable. How could Magaddino remain calm when he heard of such a slur? And why hadn’t Cotroni told him beforehand about the meeting? Had Bonanno and the visiting New Yorkers not been arrested shortly afterwards, Magaddino could have started a small war over the slight. In Don Stefano’s eyes, Montreal was his territory and Cotroni commited nothing less than an act of treason by meeting with the Americans there without his permission. How he came to the conclusion that Quebec was his turf was anyone’s guess, but he considered this to be an absolute truth. And in his mind, he must know anything of significance that happened there. As Luppino recalled his words: “I don’t care what others do, all I want to know is what is done in my house.”

To rectify the damage Cotroni had done, Magaddino wanted Luppino to move to Montreal to assert control on the Buffalo boss’s behalf.

According to this, at least in Magaddino’s mind, this meeting wasn’t a meeting to reaffirm their loyalty to the Bonannos. It sounds like he expected loyalty to him.

What is clear is Violi had a strong tie to Buffalo by marrying into the Luppino Family. I have to wonder if lines of loyalties were as clealy drawn as some think in the 60’s. Everyone is always working an angle. But it does make sense that they would line up by 72 as Magaddino’s power faded after his arrest in’68 where they found $500,000 in his walls after not giving the annual Christmas Bonuses and family began to divide into factions.

[Frank]

It appears that with Galante going up to Canada in the 1950s, obviously a Bonanno man, to me it appears that the Cotroni we're a separate group. It would seem they were not made in any U.S. LCN family at least to the time Bill Bonanno went up there. If they were already LCN members, who made them? Or were the Camorra or N'drangheta members? I was under they impression that Cotroni and his group were Bonanno going back to the 1950s.

[Lupara]

It appears that with Galante going up to Canada in the 1950s, obviously a Bonanno man, to me it appears that the Cotroni we're a separate group. It would seem they were not made in any U.S. LCN family at least to the time Bill Bonanno went up there. If they were already LCN members, who made them? Or were the Camorra or N'drangheta members? I was under they impression that Cotroni and his group were Bonanno going back to the 1950s.

I think the group already existed in some form but was organized and absorbed into the Bonannos by Galante in the 50s. Joe Bonanno was held in the highest esteem by the people in Montreal. When he was incarcerated there for a short time he was treated as a celebrity. Other inmates called him 'le grand boss' and offered to work for him. So it was pretty clear to everyone who was ultimately in charge of Montreal. The Bonannos back then were Mafia royalty.

I think because Cotroni's "gang" existed in Montreal before Galante's arrival, they were allowed to remain fairly autonomous and were basically a small family in their own right, but it was to their advantage to be attached to the Bonannos in New York.

[Frank]

It appears that with Galante going up to Canada in the 1950s, obviously a Bonanno man, to me it appears that the Cotroni we're a separate group. It would seem they were not made in any U.S. LCN family at least to the time Bill Bonanno went up there. If they were already LCN members, who made them? Or were the Camorra or N'drangheta members? I was under they impression that Cotroni and his group were Bonanno going back to the 1950s.

I think the group already existed in some form but was organized and absorbed into the Bonannos by Galante in the 50s. Joe Bonanno was held in the highest esteem by the people in Montreal. When he was incarcerated there for a short time he was treated as a celebrity. Other inmates called him 'le grand boss' and offered to work for him. So it was pretty clear to everyone who was ultimately in charge of Montreal. The Bonannos back then were Mafia royalty.

I think because Cotroni's "gang" existed in Montreal before Galante's arrival, they were allowed to remain fairly autonomous and were basically a small family in their own right, but it was to their advantage to be attached to the Bonannos in New York.

Ok thanks. But why the mysterious talk of Maggadino? Was he just unaware if the Bonanno activity in Montreal? What prompted Bill Bonanno's visit to refresh Cotroni's memory?