CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:22 pm
And of course the sicilians dont, Jesus...
I been talking about Calabrian drug ops all this time, while you claim I'm " Drug centric" , and saying the NY families are marginalized.
I've been tracking the history of the routes, trying to show its been one unbroken ( actually, sometimes broken..) chain
Now you are saying the NY families run the trade, which one is it, lol
And again, it's not about Sterling hell the last week I've read 4 different books, from 4 different perspectives, a lawyer, NY cops, Dea agents....
Why the fuck would you guys read a book about Japanese or Russians that's not written by a Japanese or Russian person? Kinda like how our best info from Canada comes from the Canadian sources.
While people still think the Feds have total info as to what's happening up there....
You seem to have a hard time focusing Cabrini. And that makes it difficult to have a discussion with you. You're all over the place.
When I say the NY families ran the heroin trade with the Sicilians (going by how I would use that term), I'm talking about up to the mid-1980s at the most. Though it should be noted that things had started changing more than a decade before that.
Since that time the NY families, while still certainly involved in the drug trade, have been marginalized. After the Pizza Connection case, the Chinese became the single largest heroin suppliers (China white) to New York, with about 40% of the market. That lasted maybe a decade before the Colombians became the primary suppliers of high-grade heroin. And of course, now we see the Mexicans moving in. And while the LCN has continued to be involved in narcotics through all that time, they lost their dominant position in terms of heroin and were never in a position to control cocaine.
Your tone can be kinda condecending.... I mean how are you questioning me about Old and New bridge?
Did you forget the thread I made, Gambinos in Canada, where I posted the excerpt from Fareses book, recounting the ENTIRE events leading up to the Old Bridge arrest? From the ITALIAN side, no less....
You commented, from your response it seemed it was the first time you saw that... Why would you question me on that?
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:51 am
But to your point, who were the American narcotics heavies you mention? Gaspipe? Amuso? Genovese people?
I'm not sure what you mean by "heavies" but this is a list of American members who were involved in drug trafficking down through the years. Obviously it's only a partial list as I'm sure there are many more.
Gambino Family
Jerry Anaclerio
Anthony Anastasia
Joseph Armone
Stephen Armone
Frank Basto
Anthony Carmaniti
John Carneglia
James Casablanca
Pasquale Conte
Joseph Corozzo
James Corrao
Robert DiBernardo
Roy DeMeo
Charles Gagliodotto
Michael Galgano
John Gambino
Paolo Gambino
John Giordano
Gene Gotti
John Gotti Jr.
Stephen Grammauta
Anthony Granza
Joseph Manfredi
James Massi
Louis Mastrangello
Rocco Mazzie
Anthony Moscatiello
Thomas Orefice
Michael Paradiso
Frank Pasqua
Guido Penosi
Michael Roccaforte
Andy Ruggiano Sr.
Andy Ruggiano Jr.
Angelo Ruggiero
Vincent Squillante
Alphonse Trucchio
Genovese Family
Charles Albero
John Ardito
Ralph Balsamo
Barney Bellomo
Steve Casertano
William Cilenti
Dominick Cirillo
Michael Coppola
Frank Costello
Joseph DeMarco
Benjamin DeMartino
Teddy DeMartino
Thomas DeMiccio
Lawrence Dentico
Dominick DeQuarto
Cosmo DiPietro
Thomas Eboli
Patsy Erra
Alfred Faicco
Anthony Ferro
Emilio Fusco
Frank Gallucio
Vito Genovese
Vincent Gigante
Conrad Ianniello
Joseph Lapi
Ernest Lazarra
Daniel Leo
Frank Livorsi
Salvatore Lombardi
Philip Lombardo
Charles Luciano
Alphonse Malangone
Alfanso Marzano
Vincent Mauro
Thomas Milo
Felix Monaco
Willie Moretti
Louis Moscatiello
George Nobile
Louis Pacella
Joseph Pagano
Pat Pagano
Sally Young Palmieri
Rocco Pelligrino
Armando Perillo
David Petillo
James Picarelli
Prisco Brothers
Carmine Romano
Angelo Salerno
Anthony Scaffidi
Giovanni Schillaci
Michael Spinella
John Stopelli
Anthony Strollo
Joseph Valachi
Eli Zeccardi
Lucchese Family
Vic Amuso
Thomas Anzellotto
Ray Argentina
Anthony Baratta
Joseph Bendenelli
Nicholas Bonina
Frank Capello
Jody Calabrese
Frank Callace
Eugene Castelle
Anthony Casso
Sam Cavalieri
Ralph Cuomo
Domenico Cutaia
Al D'Arco
Edward D'Argenio
Charles DiPalermo
Joseph DiPalermo
Peter DiPalermo
James Galione
Eugene Giannini
Frank Gioa
Anthony Lisi
Matthew Madonna
John Ormento
Victor Panica
Dominick Petrillo
James Plumeri
Vincent Rao
Salvatore Santoro
Joseph Tangorra
Nicholas Tolentino
Carmine Trumunti
Angelo Tuminaro
Angelo Urgitano
Bonanno Family
Anthony Aiello
Baldo Amato
Vincent Basciano
Anthony Basile
Joseph Bonanno
Ceasar Bonvente
Salvatore Catalano
Michael Consolo
Peter Cosoleto
Rosario Dionosio
Natale Evola
Carmine Galante
Stephen LoCurto
Frank Mari
Bari Mascitti
Anthony Mira
John Petrone
Nicholas Pisciotti
Angelo Presizano
Frank Presizano
Philip Rastelli
The Rizzutos
Nicholas Santora
Paul Sciascia
Colombo Family
Ralph DeLeo
Bortolo Ferrigno
Nicholas Forlano
Gaetano Marino
Teddy Perisco Jr.
Christophoro Rubino
Greg Scarpa
Michaelangelo Vitale
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:51 am
But to your point, who were the American narcotics heavies you mention? Gaspipe? Amuso? Genovese people?
I'm not sure what you mean by "heavies" but this is a list of American members who were involved in drug trafficking down through the years. Obviously it's only a partial list as I'm sure there are many more.
Gambino Family
Jerry Anaclerio
Anthony Anastasia
Joseph Armone
Stephen Armone
Frank Basto
Anthony Carmaniti
John Carneglia
James Casablanca
Pasquale Conte
Joseph Corozzo
James Corrao
Robert DiBernardo
Roy DeMeo
Charles Gagliodotto
Michael Galgano
John Gambino
Paolo Gambino
John Giordano
Gene Gotti
John Gotti Jr.
Stephen Grammauta
Anthony Granza
Joseph Manfredi
James Massi
Louis Mastrangello
Rocco Mazzie
Anthony Moscatiello
Thomas Orefice
Michael Paradiso
Frank Pasqua
Guido Penosi
Michael Roccaforte
Andy Ruggiano Sr.
Andy Ruggiano Jr.
Angelo Ruggiero
Vincent Squillante
Alphonse Trucchio
Genovese Family
Charles Albero
John Ardito
Ralph Balsamo
Barney Bellomo
Steve Casertano
William Cilenti
Dominick Cirillo
Michael Coppola
Frank Costello
Joseph DeMarco
Benjamin DeMartino
Teddy DeMartino
Thomas DeMiccio
Lawrence Dentico
Dominick DeQuarto
Cosmo DiPietro
Thomas Eboli
Patsy Erra
Alfred Faicco
Anthony Ferro
Emilio Fusco
Frank Gallucio
Vito Genovese
Vincent Gigante
Conrad Ianniello
Joseph Lapi
Ernest Lazarra
Daniel Leo
Frank Livorsi
Salvatore Lombardi
Philip Lombardo
Charles Luciano
Alphonse Malangone
Alfanso Marzano
Vincent Mauro
Thomas Milo
Felix Monaco
Willie Moretti
Louis Moscatiello
George Nobile
Louis Pacella
Joseph Pagano
Pat Pagano
Sally Young Palmieri
Rocco Pelligrino
Armando Perillo
David Petillo
James Picarelli
Prisco Brothers
Carmine Romano
Angelo Salerno
Anthony Scaffidi
Giovanni Schillaci
Michael Spinella
John Stopelli
Anthony Strollo
Joseph Valachi
Eli Zeccardi
Lucchese Family
Vic Amuso
Thomas Anzellotto
Ray Argentina
Anthony Baratta
Joseph Bendenelli
Nicholas Bonina
Frank Capello
Jody Calabrese
Frank Callace
Eugene Castelle
Anthony Casso
Sam Cavalieri
Ralph Cuomo
Domenico Cutaia
Al D'Arco
Edward D'Argenio
Charles DiPalermo
Joseph DiPalermo
Peter DiPalermo
James Galione
Eugene Giannini
Frank Gioa
Anthony Lisi
Matthew Madonna
John Ormento
Victor Panica
Dominick Petrillo
James Plumeri
Vincent Rao
Salvatore Santoro
Joseph Tangorra
Nicholas Tolentino
Carmine Trumunti
Angelo Tuminaro
Angelo Urgitano
Bonanno Family
Anthony Aiello
Baldo Amato
Vincent Basciano
Anthony Basile
Joseph Bonanno
Ceasar Bonvente
Salvatore Catalano
Michael Consolo
Peter Cosoleto
Rosario Dionosio
Natale Evola
Carmine Galante
Stephen LoCurto
Frank Mari
Bari Mascitti
Anthony Mira
John Petrone
Nicholas Pisciotti
Angelo Presizano
Frank Presizano
Philip Rastelli
The Rizzutos
Nicholas Santora
Paul Sciascia
Colombo Family
Ralph DeLeo
Bortolo Ferrigno
Nicholas Forlano
Gaetano Marino
Teddy Perisco Jr.
Christophoro Rubino
Greg Scarpa
Michaelangelo Vitale
Lol, that's kind of a bullshit list. Who out of all those guys were the Americans involved in the PIZZA CONNECTION rings?... not the French Connection...
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:26 pm
Also, a reminder..
The thread is about the phenomenon of Double affiliation, which seems to occur when the mafias engage in intercontental trafficking.
That was the whole point...
I've repeatedly said that international trafficking has always involved multiple intertwined groups in a network but they have rarely if ever been known to involve double affiliation. The only exception in N.America might be with the Ontario Buffalo faction, which seems to have brought some 'ndrangheta members into the Buffalo/Ontario mafia family first around the 1950s, but we lack concrete sources confirming that let alone the reason Buffalo inducted/recognized them.
Outside of that, you seem to confuse networks with formal mafia organizations, which overlap but are completely different concepts. From the way you have handled this discussion it seems clear you have a strange emotional agenda behind your arguments and there isn't much of a point to continue responding to this thread despite some good discussion that has come out of it at times. I hope you find that triple-affiliated mafia super-organization that came together to rule the drug trade and its boss "Moby Dick". Take care.
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:54 pm
@wiseguy
Lol, that's kind of a bullshit list. Who out of all those guys were the Americans involved in the PIZZA CONNECTION rings?... not the French Connection...
First, what's wrong with using the quote function?
Second, since when were we only talking about the Pizza Connection?
Third, the Pizza Connection was mainly a Sicilian Mafia/Bonanno family operation. Among those charged were Bonanno members Salvatore Catalano, Cesare Bonventre, and Baldo Amato. No doubt Carmine Galante would have also been charged if he hadn't already been killed. DeCavalcante member Frank Polizzi was also indicted.
B. wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:50 pm
I've repeatedly said that international trafficking has always involved multiple intertwined groups in a network but they have rarely if ever been known to involve double affiliation.
That was also my conclusion after reading "Last Days Of The Sicilians & The Pizza Connection". In fact, I thought it was very obvious.
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:54 pm
@wiseguy
Lol, that's kind of a bullshit list. Who out of all those guys were the Americans involved in the PIZZA CONNECTION rings?... not the French Connection...
First, what's wrong with using the quote function?
Second, since when were we only talking about the Pizza Connection?
Third, the Pizza Connection was mainly a Sicilian Mafia/Bonanno family operation. Among those charged were Bonanno members Salvatore Catalano, Cesare Bonventre, and Baldo Amato. No doubt Carmine Galante would have also been charged if he hadn't already been killed. DeCavalcante member Frank Polizzi was also indicted.
Cabrini - why is that a bullshit list??? You were stating how there was a drug ban and WG was just statibg all the members who deal dope.....
The pizza connection was like WG stated was a Bonanno thing... and the french conection was a total different group, i believe it was the lukes...
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:54 pm
@wiseguy
Lol, that's kind of a bullshit list. Who out of all those guys were the Americans involved in the PIZZA CONNECTION rings?... not the French Connection...
First, what's wrong with using the quote function?
Second, since when were we only talking about the Pizza Connection?
Third, the Pizza Connection was mainly a Sicilian Mafia/Bonanno family operation. Among those charged were Bonanno members Salvatore Catalano, Cesare Bonventre, and Baldo Amato. No doubt Carmine Galante would have also been charged if he hadn't already been killed. DeCavalcante member Frank Polizzi was also indicted.
Cabrini - why is that a bullshit list??? You were stating how there was a drug ban and WG was just statibg all the members who deal dope.....
The pizza connection was like WG stated was a Bonanno thing... and the french conection was a total different group, i believe it was the lukes...
As I said, Cabrini has some difficulty focusing. I'm thinking Adderall or Ritalin is in order.
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:54 pm
@wiseguy
Lol, that's kind of a bullshit list. Who out of all those guys were the Americans involved in the PIZZA CONNECTION rings?... not the French Connection...
First, what's wrong with using the quote function?
Second, since when were we only talking about the Pizza Connection?
Third, the Pizza Connection was mainly a Sicilian Mafia/Bonanno family operation. Among those charged were Bonanno members Salvatore Catalano, Cesare Bonventre, and Baldo Amato. No doubt Carmine Galante would have also been charged if he hadn't already been killed. DeCavalcante member Frank Polizzi was also indicted.
Cabrini - why is that a bullshit list??? You were stating how there was a drug ban and WG was just statibg all the members who deal dope.....
The pizza connection was like WG stated was a Bonanno thing... and the french conection was a total different group, i believe it was the lukes...
As I said, Cabrini has some difficulty focusing. I'm thinking Adderall or Ritalin is in order.
Lol. But it's a interesting subject and discussion. His original point I believe was double affiliated members. But if you look into this some of the Zips come over already made in Sicily and some came over not made yet. I think to paint every Mafia member or associate with the same brush is a mistake. Some came made, others got made in US Families and some never got made. Look at John Gambino, he got into other businesses besides drugs others didn't.
Frank wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:45 am
Lol. But it's a interesting subject and discussion. His original point I believe was double affiliated members. But if you look into this some of the Zips come over already made in Sicily and some came over not made yet. I think to paint every Mafia member or associate with the same brush is a mistake. Some came made, others got made in US Families and some never got made. Look at John Gambino, he got into other businesses besides drugs others didn't.
honestly, the only cases of double affiliation that comes in mind are the ones in italy when some neapolitan and calabrian bosses were made member of cosa nostra in the 1970s
