Sit down Between Gravano,Franzese, Giuliani and Chazz Palminteri

[Pmac2]

So far I’ve heard, Michael, Sammy, and massino in his testimony all say they made a limited amount of guys in 1975. Are people still arguing about this on here or has that argument been dropped?

this will go on and on. i believe barone and cafaro were made into the genovese family in 1974 also casso into the luchese. i think carlo gambino wasnt opening his familys books till he died. i think the bonannos had no say as well as the colombos because there leaderships around that time were fucked up.

[Antiliar]

So far I’ve heard, Michael, Sammy, and massino in his testimony all say they made a limited amount of guys in 1975. Are people still arguing about this on here or has that argument been dropped?

this will go on and on. i believe barone and cafaro were made into the genovese family in 1974 also casso into the luchese. i think carlo gambino wasnt opening his familys books till he died. i think the bonannos had no say as well as the colombos because there leaderships around that time were fucked up.

I agree. I think the 1976 year as the reopening of the books needs to be reevaluated.

[Pmac2]

Why is sammy debating mike being made in 75 cause i would like to see that for free.lol

[nizarsoccer]

Why is sammy debating mike being made in 75 cause i would like to see that for free.lol

He was not. Mike is adamant about being made in 1975 as the first batch. Sammy doesn't agree with the date (says Frankie DeCiccio was made in 1975 too) just that he didn't deserve to be one of the first ones since more capable people had to wait 20 years.

[Pogo The Clown]

Gravano is looking a lot like James Carville these days.


Pogo

[Tonyd621]

Sammy is all over the place though. You can tell he forgets what he's talking about sometimes.

[Confederate]

Big tough Sammy Gravano who was involved in 19 murders sounds like a whing 15 year old girl in High School who can't accept an apology & wants to go on & on about it like some insecure thin skinned idiot. Either that OR it was all scripted & staged like in Wrestling. lol

[Pmac2]

Yaeh all the youtube guys went stale. Unless some old rat comes forth its done. How many times can sammy tell the big paul hit or mike f about the gas tax scam. Alite gave up i think. Calandra ran out of bath ave storys. Maybe someone comes forth but it dead for now. Sammy cant remember anything he didnt put in his book ive notcied. All that prison time probaly fucked his memory up. Hes on his 3 season of his podcast still talking about the aftermath of pauls hit and frank d getting killed

[Angelo Santino]

Checked out the preview. Gravano's gripe about Franzese being green and still moving in front of the line ahead of guys who deserved it more is as old as time. So many factors go into it ranging from circumstances to who's who, it's safe to say that the Mafia isn't an equal opportunity employer and it's no fault of Franzese's. Still though, what Gravano is echoing is on par with other "workers" like Fratianno and others who had to prove they could hold the position while the sons of members were given it and expected to grow into it. The answer varies depending on who you ask and their background. I imagine both Paul Castellano and John Gotti would give very different answers if they were to candidly describe what the quintessential made guy should embody.

This also- for researchers like B, Rick and myself would find ironic is that we have a Sicilian starting that to a Napolitan. The situation is an embodiment of 100 years of Americanization and yet the subculture and rivalry between blue and white collar mafiosi remains.

As far as what constitutes an informant in that world, I asked DiLeonardo and he summarized it: "if someone tells the government anything about anyone then he's a rat. If someone called the FBI about al Qaeda he's a rat." That seems to be the mafia's definition and criteria so Franzese doesnt have a leg to stand on when he says he didnt send anyone to jail, it's an irrelevant point. So Gravano is correct.

Gravano's Jr-being-made-and-Chin-saying-sorry-to-hear-that also changed. In the book Gigante replied that to Gotti because, according to Gravano, the life was getting bad and no one in their right mind would want the life for their children. Now the story is Chin said that because Junior jumped ahead of the line and "that's not Cosa Nostra." As an outsider whose followed 200 years of this, it is, it kinda is.

It's an argument that can also be applied to boss, throughout history theres been no shortage of guys taking leadership positions over more seasoned or established figures.

As far as the fight scene build up at the end, looked to me like both men were smiling. And was it nessecary to have a guy sitting still each behind man against opposite walls. Were they paid to just sit there for ten hours? It's two senior citizens not Tyson and Holyfield in a stylized room. And we wonder why is cost 500k.

[Antiliar]

Checked out the preview. Gravano's gripe about Franzese being green and still moving in front of the line ahead of guys who deserved it more is as old as time. So many factors go into it ranging from circumstances to who's who, it's safe to say that the Mafia isn't an equal opportunity employer and it's no fault of Franzese's. Still though, what Gravano is echoing is on par with other "workers" like Fratianno and others who had to prove they could hold the position while the sons of members were given it and expected to grow into it. The answer varies depending on who you ask and their background. I imagine both Paul Castellano and John Gotti would give very different answers if they were to candidly describe what the quintessential made guy should embody.

This also- for researchers like B, Rick and myself would find ironic is that we have a Sicilian starting that to a Napolitan. The situation is an embodiment of 100 years of Americanization and yet the subculture and rivalry between blue and white collar mafiosi remains.

As far as what constitutes an informant in that world, I asked DiLeonardo and he summarized it: "if someone tells the government anything about anyone then he's a rat. If someone called the FBI about al Qaeda he's a rat." That seems to be the mafia's definition and criteria so Franzese doesnt have a leg to stand on when he says he didnt send anyone to jail, it's an irrelevant point. So Gravano is correct.

Gravano's Jr-being-made-and-Chin-saying-sorry-to-hear-that also changed. In the book Gigante replied that to Gotti because, according to Gravano, the life was getting bad and no one in their right mind would want the life for their children. Now the story is Chin said that because Junior jumped ahead of the line and "that's not Cosa Nostra." As an outsider whose followed 200 years of this, it is, it kinda is.

It's an argument that can also be applied to boss, throughout history theres been no shortage of guys taking leadership positions over more seasoned or established figures.

As far as the fight scene build up at the end, looked to me like both men were smiling. And was it nessecary to have a guy sitting still each behind man against opposite walls. Were they paid to just sit there for ten hours? It's two senior citizens not Tyson and Holyfield in a stylized room. And we wonder why is cost 500k.

Additionally, we've seen in the history of the Mafia that there have been plenty of members who were made because of a special skill that helped the organization. This includes physicians, attorneys, businessmen, and even the occasional priest. Melchiorre Allegra was a politically-minded physician who was made into the Pagliarelli borgata, Frank Borgia a wealthy vintner who was made into the Los Angeles Family, Frank Desimone was a criminal attorney who eventually became boss of the L.A. Family, Robert DiBernardo reportedly never did "heavy work" before getting made, etc: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7534
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7540
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7538
So there's nothing "non-Cosa Nostra" about a guy getting made with no history of being in a gang or committing murders.

Regarding what constitutes a "rat," we've also seen the definition of not hurting anybody, or even just not hurting another member. We've seen the strict definition of rat broken all the time. We discussed that in the book Carlo Gambino: Boss of Bosses there's a story about Gambino notifying the police about a black criminal. It's common knowledge that a young Lucky Luciano notified narcotics agents about a stash in a member's car. FBI files are full of members - including some bosses - who talked to the feds to their benefit. There was a general rule that the son of a police officer couldn't get made, but in Chicago they may have made a few ex-cops (and even had members who were active in law enforcement). So we might say that DiLeonardo's definition is the "by the book" definition, but plenty of members had a more liberal definition.

I had the same feeling when I heard Gravano revise the Gotti-Gigante story. I suspect that he's revised a few more stories.

The latest Sammy the Bull podcast shines a little more light on the meeting. It apparently was held in or near a winery in Napa, California (if I recall correctly). It makes sense considering that Gravano lives in Arizona and Franzese and Ben-David are in California. It's beautiful country up there.

[bronx]

gotti sr tells his son "if you had a church steeple sticking out of your ass" by the oath ,by the cosa nostra"book" by the the blood you spill on the saint and burn it, never admit anything about anyone to the public, law enforcement, even your girl friend. lol. this hard core rule has been broken by many ..bosses included, all bullshit..giving competion up to L.E. goes back .. there are many who did die by those rules, death penalty , life in prison.. scammy is a disgrace ,what he says is bad about the life..is him..he must not have a mirror..mike f .talks about guys who flip manipulating the G. he is still doing it ,to them and us..great theatre ,they set it up well. scamming everyone again..but it is fun to watch..

[Shellackhead]

Why don’t they just release the whole thing on YouTube? I’m not paying 40$ to watch shit that I can find on here or Google.

[Rat]

Did this thing even ever come out?

[Nick Prango]

gotti sr tells his son "if you had a church steeple sticking out of your ass" by the oath ,by the cosa nostra"book" by the the blood you spill on the saint and burn it, never admit anything about anyone to the public, law enforcement, even your girl friend. lol. this hard core rule has been broken by many ..bosses included, all bullshit..giving competion up to L.E. goes back .. there are many who did die by those rules, death penalty , life in prison.. scammy is a disgrace ,what he says is bad about the life..is him..he must not have a mirror..mike f .talks about guys who flip manipulating the G. he is still doing it ,to them and us..great theatre ,they set it up well. scamming everyone again..but it is fun to watch..

I totally agree. Gravano is definitely a disgrace. He is one of the best USA government witnesses ever. He was snitching on everybody, what about Locascio? He stood trial with Gotti and as far as I’m aware Locascio was on the same page as Gravano (that Gotti is crazy). Locascio went down because of Gravano.

The Chin got testified against by Gravano, hell 35 other mobsters went down because of Gravano’s testimony.

Guy sung like a bird, no doubt. I don’t really get behind he did it to get back at Gotti, he snitched on all his pals and associates

[joeycigars]

Why don’t they just release the whole thing on YouTube? I’m not paying 40$ to watch shit that I can find on here or Google.

Ill pay 40 if Sammys grand daughter Karina Seabrook shows her snatch , Shes one step away from it before she looks like her mother, come on Karina one for the team