Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Lupara]

Taking a different track....

Did you guys find it at all compelling that Joe Violi had ANY dilemma about what family to join?

Like Antimafia speculated that Dom Violi could a transferred from the Bonnanos. But I asked what would be the advantage of that?

Same question in the case of Joe Violi, if there isnt any real family left, why would he be so torn as to WHICH family to join?

Another thing to wonder about. If this is true (apparantly information from wiretaps are no longer meaningful) why would Joe Violi have trouble choosing between a dead family and a very much alive family? Food for thought.

EDIT: I was so eager to respond that I didn't even finish your post seeing that you brought up the same in the sentence below. [emoji28]

However the point stands.

[scagghiuni]

John Tronolone was named Boss of Cleveland in the 80s despite their being only about a dozen members remaining with half of them in prison and only like 2 (including Tronolone) engaged in criminal activity. Tommy Marotta was named Boss of Rochester despite there being only about 20 members remaining with about half of them in prison and less than a handful of the remaining engaged in crime. Paul Villano was named Boss of Denver/Pueblo in the 90s when there were only about a handful of members left with no real criminal activity to speak of. Billy D'Elia was named Boss of Scranton in the early 90s despite there being about a dozen members remaining with almost all of them being old, inactive or in prison. Anthony Carolla and Frank Gagliano were namded Boss and UnderBoss of New Orleans in 1990ish despite there being only about a dozen-dozen and half members remaining with only like 5 of them (including Carolla and Gagliano) being active.


All of the above were promoted to meaingful positions on paper but what did it really mean when there was no real organization or real ongoing activity to speak of? Likewise in the present day what does it mean to be named "UnderBoss" of a family whose members are old and inactive with little criminal activity going on?


Pogo

i don't know exactly these events, but cleveland was still viable in the 80s for example
tommy marotta was made boss by who? and carolla and gagliano?
here violi said clearly todaro jr made him underboss of buffalo, that there are 30 members etc. it seems the family is viable and active, violi himself attended a bonanno ceremony, he's involved in drug trafficking, probably in murders
i think the bonanno's helped buffalo to rebuild, they needed allied in ontario to fight the rizzuto's and asked todaro jr to rebuild the family and make new members, the canada situation played a big role in this i bet

[Wiseguy]

The only ones jumping to conclusions are you and Pogo. The rest of us are just speculating.

We're simply doing what we have always done - looked at the available facts within the larger context, as well as defer to the FBI. And you know what? Because we do that, we end up being right almost all the time.

Speaking for myself, if I didn't have a specific focus on the state of the LCN in the 21st century, I would probably be as smitten with this recent Buffalo info as many of you.

Anyway, you all are free to speculate as much as you want. Just remember what we said. Time will go on and you guys will be left wondering what happened to the so called "resurgent" Buffalo family when little to nothing else happens. I might be tempted to revisit these threads on the annual anniversary of when this "Violi is underboss" info came out just to make a point.

[Moscone65]

John Tronolone was named Boss of Cleveland in the 80s despite their being only about a dozen members remaining with half of them in prison and only like 2 (including Tronolone) engaged in criminal activity. Tommy Marotta was named Boss of Rochester despite there being only about 20 members remaining with about half of them in prison and less than a handful of the remaining engaged in crime. Paul Villano was named Boss of Denver/Pueblo in the 90s when there were only about a handful of members left with no real criminal activity to speak of. Billy D'Elia was named Boss of Scranton in the early 90s despite there being about a dozen members remaining with almost all of them being old, inactive or in prison. Anthony Carolla and Frank Gagliano were namded Boss and UnderBoss of New Orleans in 1990ish despite there being only about a dozen-dozen and half members remaining with only like 5 of them (including Carolla and Gagliano) being active.


All of the above were promoted to meaingful positions on paper but what did it really mean when there was no real organization or real ongoing activity to speak of? Likewise in the present day what does it mean to be named "UnderBoss" of a family whose members are old and inactive with little criminal activity going on?


Pogo

i don't know exactly these events, but cleveland was still viable in the 80s for example
tommy marotta was made boss by who? and carolla and gagliano?
here violi said clearly todaro jr made him underboss of buffalo, that there are 30 members etc. it seems the family is viable and active, violi himself attended a bonanno ceremony, he's involved in drug trafficking, probably in murders
i think the bonanno's helped buffalo to rebuild, they needed allied in ontario to fight the rizzuto's and asked todaro jr to rebuild the family and make new members, the canada situation played a big role in this i bet

I agree.

[Lupara]

The only ones jumping to conclusions are you and Pogo. The rest of us are just speculating.

We're simply doing what we have always done - looked at the available facts within the larger context, as well as defer to the FBI. And you know what? Because we do that, we end up being right almost all the time.

And that's exactly what it's all about, your determination to be right. Always using the FBI as a source is safe way of doing so.

You guys tend to overlook the meaningfulness of speculation, with a decent source as a base, as something that keeps these forums alive and interesting.

[Wiseguy]

The only ones jumping to conclusions are you and Pogo. The rest of us are just speculating.

We're simply doing what we have always done - looked at the available facts within the larger context, as well as defer to the FBI. And you know what? Because we do that, we end up being right almost all the time.

And that's exactly what it's all about, your determination to be right. Always using the FBI as a source is safe way of doing so.

You guys tend to overlook the meaningfulness of speculation, with a decent source as a base, as something that keeps these forums alive and interesting.

Yes, to "be right" so we have a correct view of the subject at hand, not to win an argument.

I really do think you guys find reality so boring that you engage in endless speculation. Even if that speculation ends up being right only 5% of the time at best.

[antimafia]

Membership in Mafia 'better than gold,' landmark trial of two mobsters hears

https://nationalpost.com/news/membershi ... ers-hears/

GTA cocaine conspiracy was tied to ’Ndrangheta crime network, Crown says at sentencing of alleged mob boss

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/1 ... -boss.html

The two articles to which I posted links above were in relation to Giuseppe Ursino's and Cosmin Dracea's sentencing hearing back in November, which ended up resulting in pending sentences. On the followup date of December 5, 2018, there was either a property hearing for both or just for Dracea--I don't know because no journalist reported on the hearing.

The sentencing hearing resumes tomorrow, January 9. I'll try to provide an update to all of you before the articles are published in some of the major Canadian newspapers, i.e., the National Post, the Toronto Star.

[SonnyBlackstein]

I really do think you guys find reality so boring that you engage in endless speculation.

Endless Speculation?

We have a newly anointed UB, made in 2015 discussing with another made man that he was chosen above 30 guys in the Buffalo family.
This is from the source.

And we’re just ‘endlessly speculating’?
Honestly. Disagree based on the Federal position and rate of prosecution, sure, those are valid arguments, but to present ‘our side’ as mere ‘endless speculation’ when all we are quoting is direct information from a source? That’s a ridiculous summation.

[Lupara]

Yes, to "be right" so we have a correct view of the subject at hand, not to win an argument.

So that there is no room for discussion?

I really do think you guys find reality so boring that you engage in endless speculation. Even if that speculation ends up being right only 5% of the time at best.

Why not let people? You've been on this crusade for the longest time, what's the point of it all? Why can't people have a good discussion without you throwing FBI statements at them each and every time? You can do it in just one post if you want to make your point and be heard, but you keep going at it, for what actually, to kill a thread? What's the endgame here, you want everyone to agree with you?

As for me, the "reality" that has been happening in Canada for the last decade and beyond is of Hollywood movie material so I'm far from bored. [emoji2]

And the Violis are big players in Canada, with or without a viable, from an FBI standard, Buffalo family. The technicalities of Buffalo's viability don't change much of the reality that has been happening north of the border. But a still existing Buffalo organization would add another dimension to an already interesting landscape and would change our perspective and provide some explanations.

[Pogo The Clown]

You must love GBB.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

You must love GBB.


Pogo

So it’s either you believe 1000% the Federal line without being allowed to even question (hmm, Joey Merlino was a Westside member, source a Federal agent) or you must be a GBB headcase prone to mafia fandom and fantasy?

That’s it?

Those are the two choices? One camp or the other? No grey area?

We’ve been presented with very interesting information which could potentially change the way we understand the LCN landscape and current concensus and if we debate, question or conclude it is of worth then we’re GBB idiots who are only good for discussing favourite colours?

Way to stick to the argument and not throw mud

[Pogo The Clown]

My post was directed at Lupara who wants to endlessly speculate and injecting facts into the discussion equates to trying to kill a thread. Funny that arguement was also used 10+ years ago on the old boards with the whole Chicago and Detroit over hyping and Rockford still being alive discussions. As I said earlier we have this play out countless times with the very same arguements repeated again and again. The only thing that changes is the city in question. It like a script.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

My post was directed at Lupara who wants to endlessly speculate and injecting facts into the discussion equates to trying to kill a thread. Funny that arguement was also used 10+ years ago on the old boards with the whole Chicago and Detroit over hyping and Rockford still being alive discussions. As I said earlier we have this play out countless times with the very same arguements repeated again and again. The only thing that changes is the city in question. It like a script.


Pogo

And that's essentially the answer to Lupara's question. Nobody is trying to "kill threads." But anyone who has been on the boards long enough, from the early RD forum (and before) to the present day GBB, knows how easily speculation can turn into conventional wisdom and accepted fact if it's repeated enough. And that, of course, fosters an environment for the phonies and insiders to crawl put from under their rocks. Before you know it, you're waist deep in bullshit.

Anyway, I'm more than content to "agree to disagree," as they say, and sit back and watch little or nothing else happen with the remnants of the Buffalo family...on either side of the border.

[Ivan]

oh for Christ's sake people just agree to disagree already until something more concrete comes out

seriously, 50 pages? hahaha

[Wiseguy]

oh for Christ's sake people just agree to disagree already until something more concrete comes out

seriously, 50 pages? hahaha

Makes you think if LA captain Louie Caruso was in a fender bender, that would result in at least a 5 page thread.