Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[B.]

- The US mafia has historically allowed transfers from the Sicilian mafia. It appears this has even happened close to present day based on Felice's information. This is/was done using a letter of recommendation from a leader of the transferee's original family. Once a member has transferred, they are considered part of a different family and are not "double affiliated". If a Sicilian mafia member transfers to a US family, he is a member of a US family from that point on. No doubt he would retain his relationships and still be a part of the same network, but his affiliation changes. The US and Sicilian mafias, for all of the changes that have happened, still have a shared origin.

- Paolo Violi was recorded in the 1970s discussing a waiting period for members who wished to transfer their affiliation to the Bonanno decina. This was likely in reference to Sicilian mafia members who had emigrated to Canada and wished to gain status in the local hierarchy.

- Some early Calabrian members of the US mafia were originally part of Camorra ('ndrangheta) groups. Rocco Pellegrino was a confirmed ranking member of an NY Camorra group before joining the Masseria/Genovese family and becoming a capodecina. The Pittsburgh Camorra was absorbed into the Pittsburgh mafia according to Nick Gentile and this mainland group became hugely influential in that family. There is reason to speculate that other Calabrians and Neapolitans were members or at least associates of Camorra ('ndrangheta) groups before joining US families as well. From the Ray DeCarlo tapes, we know that some mainlanders, like Vito Genovese, were said to have been snuck into the mafia in the early 1920s but we don't know if these guys were Camorra associates, members, or none of the above. Vito Genovese does appear to have been at least a Camorra associate.

- We have zero info on Camorra ('ndrangheta) members transferring to US families like the Sicilians. What little info we have points to them being absorbed or inducted rather than transferring, though. That would make sense as with the Sicilian and US mafias their shared origin gives them the ability to recognize one another, while we don't know of any examples where Camorristi were formally recognized by the US mafia.

I believe all of this should be taken into account when discussing the Canadian groups as the rules are more similar over time and space than they are different.

[NickleCity]

From The Buffalo News Article on what their readers were interested in in 2018:

•••

Is the Buffalo Mafia dead or alive?

Pretty much dead, as it turns out. The News dug into the not-so-salacious details.

https://buffalonews.com/2018/12/29/here ... n-in-2018/

[willychichi]

From The Buffalo News Article on what their readers were interested in in 2018:

•••

Is the Buffalo Mafia dead or alive?

Pretty much dead, as it turns out. The News dug into the not-so-salacious details.

https://buffalonews.com/2018/12/29/here ... n-in-2018/

Here is the correct link

https://buffalonews.com/2018/12/08/is-t ... -or-alive/

[NickleCity]

From The Buffalo News Article on what their readers were interested in in 2018:

•••

Is the Buffalo Mafia dead or alive?

Pretty much dead, as it turns out. The News dug into the not-so-salacious details.

https://buffalonews.com/2018/12/29/here ... n-in-2018/

Here is the correct link

https://buffalonews.com/2018/12/08/is-t ... -or-alive/

Should have been more clear... The Buffalo News did a year in review piece by Collin Dabkowski titled: “In 2018, here's what our readers were most interested in” dated Dec. 29, 2018. It links to the “Is the Buffalo mafia dead or alive” article and summarized it as such:

Is the Buffalo Mafia dead or alive?

Pretty much dead, as it turns out. The News dug into the not-so-salacious details.

I would appear they still believe the Buffalo mob is “pretty much dead” and the news from the Violi sentencing not that interesting or “salacious.”

[Stroccos]

From The Buffalo News Article on what their readers were interested in in 2018:

•••

Is the Buffalo Mafia dead or alive?

Pretty much dead, as it turns out. The News dug into the not-so-salacious details.

https://buffalonews.com/2018/12/29/here ... n-in-2018/

Here is the correct link

https://buffalonews.com/2018/12/08/is-t ... -or-alive/

Should have been more clear... The Buffalo News did a year in review piece by Collin Dabkowski titled: “In 2018, here's what our readers were most interested in” dated Dec. 29, 2018. It links to the “Is the Buffalo mafia dead or alive” article and summarized it as such:

Is the Buffalo Mafia dead or alive?

Pretty much dead, as it turns out. The News dug into the not-so-salacious details.

I would appear they still believe the Buffalo mob is “pretty much dead” and the news from the Violi sentencing not that interesting or “salacious.”

Well I guess if your going to say your a Ub might as use a defunct family lol
Doesn’t really say anything , what’s todaro spouse to say ?
Back in the day the reporter would go sat on the place and logged todaro’s hours , to see if really does work everyday
I wonder how many undercovers feds tried to get jobs at la nova over the years , over under is 3

[Wiseguy]

Well I guess if your going to say your a Ub might as use a defunct family lol
Doesn’t really say anything , what’s todaro spouse to say ?
Back in the day the reporter would go sat on the place and logged todaro’s hours , to see if really does work everyday
I wonder how many undercovers feds tried to get jobs at la nova over the years , over under is 3

LaPiana is supposedly the Detroit underboss but that doesn't necessarily mean there's much of the mob left there.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Well I guess if your going to say your a Ub might as use a defunct family lol
Doesn’t really say anything , what’s todaro spouse to say ?
Back in the day the reporter would go sat on the place and logged todaro’s hours , to see if really does work everyday
I wonder how many undercovers feds tried to get jobs at la nova over the years , over under is 3

LaPiana is supposedly the Detroit underboss but that doesn't necessarily mean there's much of the mob left there.

I haven’t commented in this thread due to my being ‘on holiday’ but here’s my two cents, worth what it is.

As this information is not circumstantial, third party, Government conclusion, etc etc but is stated by the party of concern you really only have two options on what to believe:

A) Violi is the UB of the Buffalo family, an active family (it is nonsensical to presume an inactive family would promote a member to the UB position), with at least 30 made guys.

Or

B) Violi is lying.

Either option may be the case. But those are your only two options, IMO.

Analogies to Detroit etc are really not relevant, as if LaPiana was recorded as was Violi, we would still only have the above to options.

It follows that the likely option is also option A. It would be highly dangerous, quite stupid and serve little long term benefit for Violi to have made his recorded statements up. If Buffalo was dead, there were not 30 active members and he was not promoted to UB then the Bonanno’s would almost doubtlessly find this out and Violi would be in grave danger. With his historical association with the Mafia, Violi would certainly know this.
So although a possibility that he may have been lying, it is the unlikely scenario.

Logically we can conclude that it is therefor likely that Buffalo is an active family with at least 30 members and Violi is/was its UB.

And these conclusions are from someone who was 1000% certain Buffalo was long dead.

Rationally, though, it is the only conclusion to come to if you accept the evidence.

[Frank]

Well I guess if your going to say your a Ub might as use a defunct family lol
Doesn’t really say anything , what’s todaro spouse to say ?
Back in the day the reporter would go sat on the place and logged todaro’s hours , to see if really does work everyday
I wonder how many undercovers feds tried to get jobs at la nova over the years , over under is 3

LaPiana is supposedly the Detroit underboss but that doesn't necessarily mean there's much of the mob left there.

I haven’t commented in this thread due to my being ‘on holiday’ but here’s my two cents, worth what it is.

As this information is not circumstantial, third party, Government conclusion, etc etc but is stated by the party of concern you really only have two options on what to believe:

A) Violi is the UB of the Buffalo family, an active family (it is nonsensical to presume an inactive family would promote a member to the UB position), with at least 30 made guys.

Or

B) Violi is lying.

Either option may be the case. But those are your only two options, IMO.

Analogies to Detroit etc are really not relevant, as if LaPiana was recorded as was Violi, we would still only have the above to options.

It follows that the likely option is also option A. It would be highly dangerous, quite stupid and serve little long term benefit for Violi to have made his recorded statements up. If Buffalo was dead, there were not 30 active members and he was not promoted to UB then the Bonanno’s would almost doubtlessly find this out and Violi would be in grave danger. With his historical association with the Mafia, Violi would certainly know this.
So although a possibility that he may have been lying, it is the unlikely scenario.

Logically we can conclude that it is therefor likely that Buffalo is an active family with at least 30 members and Violi is/was its UB.

And these conclusions are from someone who was 1000% certain Buffalo was long dead.

Rationally, though, it is the only conclusion to come to if you accept the evidence.

Your 100 percent . He is either telling the truth or not.

[Pogo The Clown]

It is not so much if he is telling the truth as to what he actually said (as opposed to what Humphries wrote) and how one chooses to interpret that info. All this supposed info was known to LE in 2015 and yet they still considered Buffalo dead in 2017. There hasn't been a made member indicted in Buffalo itself since 2002. So if Violi is indeed made that is 1 made member indicted in 17 years. Shows just how little LCN activity there actually is in regards to this "resurging family".


And around and around we go.


Pogo

[scagghiuni]

It is not so much if he is telling the truth as to what he actually said (as opposed to what Humphries wrote) and how one chooses to interpret that info. All this supposed info was known to LE in 2015 and yet they still considered Buffalo dead in 2017. There hasn't been a made member indicted in Buffalo itself since 2002. So if Violi is indeed made that is 1 made member indicted in 17 years. Shows just how little LCN activity there actually is in regards to this "resurging family".


And around and around we go.


Pogo

there hasn't been a made member indicted in buffalo/united states because most of the activities are in canada and fbi thought the family was dead
canada has weak laws against organized crime, just see how many mafia-related murders over there and how many in the states, there is not comparison

[SonnyBlackstein]

It is not so much if he is telling the truth as to what he actually said (as opposed to what Humphries wrote) and how one chooses to interpret that info. All this supposed info was known to LE in 2015 and yet they still considered Buffalo dead in 2017. There hasn't been a made member indicted in Buffalo itself since 2002. So if Violi is indeed made that is 1 made member indicted in 17 years. Shows just how little LCN activity there actually is in regards to this "resurging family".


And around and around we go.


Pogo

Personally I’m not advocating a vast, sprawling, unknown to LE, LCN family with multiple tentacles and operations.

But it’s clearly the probability that there is an active family, with a hierarchy and around 30 odd members. We have almost irrefutable proof, ie recorded statements of precisely this by the family’s underboss.

I don’t see why this is contentious.

[Moscone65]

Well I guess if your going to say your a Ub might as use a defunct family lol
Doesn’t really say anything , what’s todaro spouse to say ?
Back in the day the reporter would go sat on the place and logged todaro’s hours , to see if really does work everyday
I wonder how many undercovers feds tried to get jobs at la nova over the years , over under is 3

LaPiana is supposedly the Detroit underboss but that doesn't necessarily mean there's much of the mob left there.

I haven’t commented in this thread due to my being ‘on holiday’ but here’s my two cents, worth what it is.

As this information is not circumstantial, third party, Government conclusion, etc etc but is stated by the party of concern you really only have two options on what to believe:

A) Violi is the UB of the Buffalo family, an active family (it is nonsensical to presume an inactive family would promote a member to the UB position), with at least 30 made guys.

Or

B) Violi is lying.

Either option may be the case. But those are your only two options, IMO.

Analogies to Detroit etc are really not relevant, as if LaPiana was recorded as was Violi, we would still only have the above to options.

It follows that the likely option is also option A. It would be highly dangerous, quite stupid and serve little long term benefit for Violi to have made his recorded statements up. If Buffalo was dead, there were not 30 active members and he was not promoted to UB then the Bonanno’s would almost doubtlessly find this out and Violi would be in grave danger. With his historical association with the Mafia, Violi would certainly know this.
So although a possibility that he may have been lying, it is the unlikely scenario.

Logically we can conclude that it is therefor likely that Buffalo is an active family with at least 30 members and Violi is/was its UB.

And these conclusions are from someone who was 1000% certain Buffalo was long dead.

Rationally, though, it is the only conclusion to come to if you accept the evidence.

Good logic. Also, even if Violi was lying about getting promoted, the logic proves there is still a family. The Bonnano rat, who was made, was operating in Canada, in Ontario specifically. So he had to have known about Buffalo guys working in the same area. If there was family, the Bonnano guy would be going " wtf, I thought there ain't no Buffalo guys left, what do you mean?" If he willingly accepted Violi was underboss, he must also have know about buffalo still being around.

[Pogo The Clown]

Personally I’m not advocating a vast, sprawling, unknown to LE, LCN family with multiple tentacles and operations.

But it’s clearly the probability that there is an active family, with a hierarchy and around 30 odd members. We have almost irrefutable proof, ie recorded statements of precisely this by the family’s underboss.

I don’t see why this is contentious.

And again I go back to what I said about all of this info being known to LE and yet they still considered the Buffalo family to be dead. Again it goes back to how one chooses to interpret the info. LE views it one way and people on the forums the other way.


Case in point the membership talk. What Humphries actually quoted was "30 candidates". People turned that into at least 30 members plus Violi and Todaro Jr. But what does it actually mean? Were there really 30 guy's in contention for the position? Or is it more likely just an off handed remark containing standard exaggeration rather than an accurate count of the remaining members?


We know that LE had the family at 45 members in 1989, 40 in 1996, 23 in 2006 and 20 in 2013. Factoring in deaths since then they would have had to have inducted over a dozen new members since 2013 to reach this 30 number that people are talking about. Now is that really believable considering that it doesn't look like they made many, if any, members from the late 80s-early 2010s? At a time when we are seeing places like Chicago, NE, NJ and evidently Philly starting to wind down as organizations is it really believable that Buffalo is actually growing and resurging as is being written?


Pogo

[cavita]

It is not so much if he is telling the truth as to what he actually said (as opposed to what Humphries wrote) and how one chooses to interpret that info. All this supposed info was known to LE in 2015 and yet they still considered Buffalo dead in 2017. There hasn't been a made member indicted in Buffalo itself since 2002. So if Violi is indeed made that is 1 made member indicted in 17 years. Shows just how little LCN activity there actually is in regards to this "resurging family".


And around and around we go.


Pogo

Question: When you say there hasn't been a made member indicted in Buffalo since 2002 do you mean indicted period for any crime or indicted for crimes related to LCN?

[Pogo The Clown]

Question: When you say there hasn't been a made member indicted in Buffalo since 2002 do you mean indicted period for any crime or indicted for crimes related to LCN?

Indicted period. Unless I'm forgetting someone the last member indicted in Buffalo was Sonny Nicoletti Jr. (now deceased).


From Wiseguy's indictments list.

In September 2002, Buffalo LCN captain Benjamin "Sonny" Nicoletti Jr. and associate Adam Thomas were indicted in Niagara Falls, NY on charges of racketeering, running a sports bookmaking operation that used a wire room in the Dominican Republic, conspiracy to commit robbery, extortion, and weapons possession.