SILENT PARTNERZ wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:30 am
Questions/htoughts:
1. Why did Joe Massino want Sal Vitale killed? Why was Sal in Joe's bad graces?
3. Why did the NY Bonnano's order Guiseppe Lo Presti killed? No reason given.
If I remember right LoPresti was killed for killing a guy without permission. There may have been others reasons on top of that.
Vitale first fell out of Massinos graces because he didn't like how Vitale handled things while he (Massino) was in prison. Vitale was holding Gotti style public meetings with the Capos which brought a lot of heat on the family and led to some indictments. When Massino got out he named Vitale UnderBoss but stripped him of most of the power and responsibilities that come with it (Capos couldn't meet with him, a ruling panel handled the duties of UnderBoss, etc). So he was UnderBosst in name only for the most part. I don't recall the exact reason he wanted him killed but I seem to recall it coming about after Vitale indictments and fears that he may flip.
Pogo
Thanks Pogo. How that family went from no
rats to many rats is amazing.
SILENT PARTNERZ wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:30 am
Questions/htoughts:
1. Why did Joe Massino want Sal Vitale killed? Why was Sal in Joe's bad graces?
3. Why did the NY Bonnano's order Guiseppe Lo Presti killed? No reason given.
If I remember right LoPresti was killed for killing a guy without permission. There may have been others reasons on top of that.
Vitale first fell out of Massinos graces because he didn't like how Vitale handled things while he (Massino) was in prison. Vitale was holding Gotti style public meetings with the Capos which brought a lot of heat on the family and led to some indictments. When Massino got out he named Vitale UnderBoss but stripped him of most of the power and responsibilities that come with it (Capos couldn't meet with him, a ruling panel handled the duties of UnderBoss, etc). So he was UnderBosst in name only for the most part. I don't recall the exact reason he wanted him killed but I seem to recall it coming about after Vitale indictments and fears that he may flip.
Pogo
You may confuse Lo Presti with Sciascia, who had him killed allegedly for being a drug addict and becoming a liability. Another reason might have been for unsanctioned drug deals with Angelo Ruggerio. Gotti may have wanted him killed and the order was given on to Sciascia, who in turn commanded Rizzuto to do it. Sciascia also allegedly, if he killed Lo Presti for the first reason, asked for permission to kill him after he had already done it. Then there's the speculation that Sciascia was killed for being somehow involved in the murder of Frank Cotroni's son, which has been alluded by Massino.
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
John W wrote:Any idea who the Gambino was who met with Vito in person to warn him about the problems he could have in New York?
I'm thinking it could've been Frank Cali. In addition, I think Frank Cali was likely one of the New York emissaries during the Toronto meeting with Vito Rizzuto in 2012.
John W wrote:Any idea who the Gambino was who met with Vito in person to warn him about the problems he could have in New York?
I'm thinking it could've been Frank Cali. In addition, I think Frank Cali was likely one of the New York emissaries during the Toronto meeting with Vito Rizzuto in 2012.
That makes sense , wasn’t it around that time that guys in Italy were caught on a wiretap saying FC was a very competent, senior & influential NY mafioso?
It’s pretty impressive how we are still basically flying in the dark with NY involvement in a very public mafia war tied to large scale drug trafficking.
Like a previous poster stated that NY distribution was vital to the network and was a great point to make connecting those dots & which seems so obvious now after the fact.
It’s still very confusing but we have several cases and bits of information that Canadian / Italian mafioso are either trying to set up or are currently running a possible large scale narcotics ring. Now is this is a network moving 100+ kilos a year or a 1000+ kilo? Have Dom and Barney each designated a very competent member / crew to wholesale in the powder, do they work together or do they just get a regular payment like the old Pizza Connection days, or has the West side shunned all direct drug involvement as a security risk but will help with ancillary services ( financing , money laundering , investing etc )
John W wrote:Any idea who the Gambino was who met with Vito in person to warn him about the problems he could have in New York?
I'm thinking it could've been Frank Cali. In addition, I think Frank Cali was likely one of the New York emissaries during the Toronto meeting with Vito Rizzuto in 2012.
That makes sense , wasn’t it around that time that guys in Italy were caught on a wiretap saying FC was a very competent, senior & influential NY mafioso?
It’s pretty impressive how we are still basically flying in the dark with NY involvement in a very public mafia war tied to large scale drug trafficking.
Like a previous poster stated that NY distribution was vital to the network and was a great point to make connecting those dots & which seems so obvious now after the fact.
It’s still very confusing but we have several cases and bits of information that Canadian / Italian mafioso are either trying to set up or are currently running a possible large scale narcotics ring. Now is this is a network moving 100+ kilos a year or a 1000+ kilo? Have Dom and Barney each designated a very competent member / crew to wholesale in the powder, do they work together or do they just get a regular payment like the old Pizza Connection days, or has the West side shunned all direct drug involvement as a security risk but will help with ancillary services ( financing , money laundering , investing etc )
I think people were saying that about him around 2003, which is when Vito Rizzuto was alerted by Massino that Vitale was a CW. I wonder why Massino sent a Gambino member instead of one of his own guys. Perhaps he didn't trust anyone in his own family anymore.
Not sure whether large scale drug trafficking was a factor in the Montreal mob war but who knows. It seemed more of a territorial matter with removing the Rizzutos from power first and foremost and restoring ties to the Bonannos.
With most drugs coming from the south and the Five Families refraining from selling large scale heroin like they used to back in the days Montreal is not that important to them anymore. This may very well have contributed to the Rizzutos becoming more autonomous in the 90s, after the dismantling of the Pizza Connection and the Bonannos focusing on other rackets and being less concerned with Montreal.
They were getting into Wall Street, other rackets.....I think the Cali cartel in NY had a lot to do with it, as far as the mafias involvement with coke....
CabriniGreen wrote:Also, you cant forget, without drugs, there is nothing to talk about with the Hells or the Gangs..... Red Scorps, Independent S., all those guys.
With no drugs there is no Interaction with the West End people either....
With no drugs, where does all the big construction seed money come from?
Drugs is still a major business in Montreal itself. But nowadays it's importation instead of exportation.
John W wrote:Any idea who the Gambino was who met with Vito in person to warn him about the problems he could have in New York?
I'm thinking it could've been Frank Cali. In addition, I think Frank Cali was likely one of the New York emissaries during the Toronto meeting with Vito Rizzuto in 2012.
That makes sense , wasn’t it around that time that guys in Italy were caught on a wiretap saying FC was a very competent, senior & influential NY mafioso?
It’s pretty impressive how we are still basically flying in the dark with NY involvement in a very public mafia war tied to large scale drug trafficking.
Like a previous poster stated that NY distribution was vital to the network and was a great point to make connecting those dots & which seems so obvious now after the fact.
It’s still very confusing but we have several cases and bits of information that Canadian / Italian mafioso are either trying to set up or are currently running a possible large scale narcotics ring. Now is this is a network moving 100+ kilos a year or a 1000+ kilo? Have Dom and Barney each designated a very competent member / crew to wholesale in the powder, do they work together or do they just get a regular payment like the old Pizza Connection days, or has the West side shunned all direct drug involvement as a security risk but will help with ancillary services ( financing , money laundering , investing etc )
I think people were saying that about him around 2003, which is when Vito Rizzuto was alerted by Massino that Vitale was a CW. I wonder why Massino sent a Gambino member instead of one of his own guys. Perhaps he didn't trust anyone in his own family anymore.
Not sure whether large scale drug trafficking was a factor in the Montreal mob war but who knows. It seemed more of a territorial matter with removing the Rizzutos from power first and foremost and restoring ties to the Bonannos.
With most drugs coming from the south and the Five Families refraining from selling large scale heroin like they used to back in the days Montreal is not that important to them anymore. This may very well have contributed to the Rizzutos becoming more autonomous in the 90s, after the dismantling of the Pizza Connection and the Bonannos focusing on other rackets and being less concerned with Montreal.
I don’t know a ton about Montreal or the war so I really don’t know if it was over drugs and didn’t intend to make that connection as I wouldn’t know.
I was more thinking out loud that it seems NY was to some level involved in the Montreal wars as they likely have a big say on NY distribution as someone posted in this thread.
To what level was NY involvement and how much powder are these guys moving in NY are the big question marks to me ?
It seems we have had some hints with some recent cases ( that Tough Tony link was interesting and could be a shocker or nothing ) and it’s seems the warring factions are large traffickers.
Did this all work out with NY being a major drug distribution hub for these Canadian and Italian drug traffickers ? Or is NY largely staying out of the drug game and partnering on the investment / laundering side ? Or Both or neither ? Lol . Lots of holes in this story to investigate as if they did get back (larger quantities ) into the drug business, which bosses / families made that happen as this is all pretty recent.
The Families are slinging kilos!
All of them. LOL.
"Too much $ in that white powder.
So I can't tell my people 'No'. But
I say it's to be kept away from kids
and schools..."
Sorry, I couldn't resist a little Godfather 1
action.
John W wrote:Any idea who the Gambino was who met with Vito in person to warn him about the problems he could have in New York?
I'm thinking it could've been Frank Cali. In addition, I think Frank Cali was likely one of the New York emissaries during the Toronto meeting with Vito Rizzuto in 2012.
That makes sense , wasn’t it around that time that guys in Italy were caught on a wiretap saying FC was a very competent, senior & influential NY mafioso?
It’s pretty impressive how we are still basically flying in the dark with NY involvement in a very public mafia war tied to large scale drug trafficking.
Like a previous poster stated that NY distribution was vital to the network and was a great point to make connecting those dots & which seems so obvious now after the fact.
It’s still very confusing but we have several cases and bits of information that Canadian / Italian mafioso are either trying to set up or are currently running a possible large scale narcotics ring. Now is this is a network moving 100+ kilos a year or a 1000+ kilo? Have Dom and Barney each designated a very competent member / crew to wholesale in the powder, do they work together or do they just get a regular payment like the old Pizza Connection days, or has the West side shunned all direct drug involvement as a security risk but will help with ancillary services ( financing , money laundering , investing etc )
I think people were saying that about him around 2003, which is when Vito Rizzuto was alerted by Massino that Vitale was a CW. I wonder why Massino sent a Gambino member instead of one of his own guys. Perhaps he didn't trust anyone in his own family anymore.
Not sure whether large scale drug trafficking was a factor in the Montreal mob war but who knows. It seemed more of a territorial matter with removing the Rizzutos from power first and foremost and restoring ties to the Bonannos.
With most drugs coming from the south and the Five Families refraining from selling large scale heroin like they used to back in the days Montreal is not that important to them anymore. This may very well have contributed to the Rizzutos becoming more autonomous in the 90s, after the dismantling of the Pizza Connection and the Bonannos focusing on other rackets and being less concerned with Montreal.
I don’t know a ton about Montreal or the war so I really don’t know if it was over drugs and didn’t intend to make that connection as I wouldn’t know.
I was more thinking out loud that it seems NY was to some level involved in the Montreal wars as they likely have a big say on NY distribution as someone posted in this thread.
To what level was NY involvement and how much powder are these guys moving in NY are the big question marks to me ?
It seems we have had some hints with some recent cases ( that Tough Tony link was interesting and could be a shocker or nothing ) and it’s seems the warring factions are large traffickers.
Did this all work out with NY being a major drug distribution hub for these Canadian and Italian drug traffickers ? Or is NY largely staying out of the drug game and partnering on the investment / laundering side ? Or Both or neither ? Lol . Lots of holes in this story to investigate as if they did get back (larger quantities ) into the drug business, which bosses / families made that happen as this is all pretty recent.
On one hand, we see enough drug trafficking charges in mob busts to show it's still a major racket for them.
On the other hand, generally speaking the mob has been marginalized in the drug trade for years, even in New York. You don't see the LCN holding a prominent position, if mentioned at all, in most DEA threat assessment or HIDTA reports.
However, what has always been most beneficial to the mob is it's diversification rather than its position in the drug trade. In other words, being diversified benefits the NY families more than if they were #1 in narcotics.
My memory was hazy on that.