Al Capone's decina ~1928

[DPG]

Awesome info.

I don't have the book close to me but I remember reading about an early associate of Torrio's that fell off a horse, was kicked in the head and died on the spot. The author says that the guy was Torrio's right hand and would've been next in line for the top spot over Capone if he hadnt died. Any info on him? I can find the name when I get home tonight.

Also, was Torrio really Big Jim's wife's cousin?

[Villain]

I do not remember the story but i do remember that besides Vanella, he also had another close associate and i think he was non-Italian.

Also i dont know if the Moresco family was related to the Torrios but i do know that the Morescos were real power at the time. For example she was big in prostitution while her brothers were involved in gambling

[Villain]

In addition, during Big Jim's funeral few of his pallbearers and friends were Tony D'Andrea and Diamond Joe Esposito which raises the question on whether Colosimo was in the Mafia?

I also believe in one theory that his wife or her family mightve been behind his demise

[DPG]

I do not remember the story but i do remember that besides Vanella, he also had another close associate and i think he was non-Italian.

Also i dont know if the Moresco family was related to the Torrios but i do know that the Morescos were real power at the time. For example she was big in prostitution while her brothers were involved in gambling

Samuel Morton is the name I was looking for.

[Villain]

I do not remember the story but i do remember that besides Vanella, he also had another close associate and i think he was non-Italian.

Also i dont know if the Moresco family was related to the Torrios but i do know that the Morescos were real power at the time. For example she was big in prostitution while her brothers were involved in gambling

Samuel Morton is the name I was looking for.

Wow thats strange since I used to read that Morton was a racist type of fella meaning he didnt like the Italians or anyone else for that matter and to tell you the truth i was thinking more about Walter Stevens, former Enright's underling, who in turn was allegedly Torrios right-hand man and possibly main connection in Chicagos more sophisticated rackets during the 1910s and prohibition and later Al Brown (Capone) took his place. Although Setevens might've used some sort of alias also but Im not sure. In addition, two of Torrios associates were Nick Juffra(i think) and Mike Carrozzo who in turn went way back with Colosimo

This is from 1923...

[DPG]

I do not remember the story but i do remember that besides Vanella, he also had another close associate and i think he was non-Italian.

Also i dont know if the Moresco family was related to the Torrios but i do know that the Morescos were real power at the time. For example she was big in prostitution while her brothers were involved in gambling

Samuel Morton is the name I was looking for.

Wow thats strange since I used to read that Morton was a racist type of fella meaning he didnt like the Italians or anyone else for that matter and to tell you the truth i was thinking more about Walter Stevens, former Enright's underling, who in turn was allegedly Torrios right-hand man and possibly main connection in Chicagos more sophisticated rackets during the 1910s and prohibition and later Al Brown (Capone) took his place. Although Setevens might've used some sort of alias also but Im not sure. In addition, two of Torrios associates were Nick Juffra(i think) and Mike Carrozzo who in turn went way back with Colosimo

This is from 1923...

The story about the guy came from the book Get Capone.

[Villain]

I do not remember the story but i do remember that besides Vanella, he also had another close associate and i think he was non-Italian.

Also i dont know if the Moresco family was related to the Torrios but i do know that the Morescos were real power at the time. For example she was big in prostitution while her brothers were involved in gambling

Samuel Morton is the name I was looking for.

Wow thats strange since I used to read that Morton was a racist type of fella meaning he didnt like the Italians or anyone else for that matter and to tell you the truth i was thinking more about Walter Stevens, former Enright's underling, who in turn was allegedly Torrios right-hand man and possibly main connection in Chicagos more sophisticated rackets during the 1910s and prohibition and later Al Brown (Capone) took his place. Although Setevens might've used some sort of alias also but Im not sure. In addition, two of Torrios associates were Nick Juffra(i think) and Mike Carrozzo who in turn went way back with Colosimo

This is from 1923...

The story about the guy came from the book Get Capone.

It could be possible, afterall even O'Banion was Torrios close associate at first.

Sammy Morton ruled the Lawndale area which at the time was filled with Jewish population and his buddy was in fact Maxie Eisen, who in turn later became close associate of Jake Guzik and Johnny Patton. You see Guzik also grew up around the Lawndale area and later moved to the Loop. Also Eisen once allegedly served as the facilitator or a chairman for a legendary sit down between the Capone and O’Banion gangs, with Morton allegedly being on O'Banion's side. At the time Morton's group was protected by two Jewish gambling bosses and politicians such as Jake Arvey and Moe Rosenberg and also 20th Ward alderman Manny Abrahams. As a top a leader of the Jewish crime scene, Morton also offered protection against non-Jewish gangs and this criminal group of Jewish gangsters was known as the 20th Ward Group. When Capone became the boss and Cicero his main stronghold, which is just west of Lawndale, a lot of young Jewish criminals worked occasionally for the gang including Lenny Patrick and his two brothers Jack and Mike, and story goes that the Guzik bros were the main recruiters for the Capone Mob in that same area.

[Petespin]

I don't think he was made, or on the commisonion. I kow there are sources, but other sources from very old ones to reent ones have been wrong or conflicted each other. It is possible he was made, but I doubt it. I think members of the commision had to respect him due to his power and meet with him. As to Joe Bonanno's book as a souce I thought his book was crap and self serving.

[Snakes]

So what are your sources for him not being made or on the Commission?

[chin_gigante]

It's not a frivolous claim that Capone was made and served on the Commission. You have Bonanno, Nick Gentile and the other FBI sources all saying the same thing. The idea of Capone being an independent hood seems to come from a pre-1950s/60s understanding of LCN.

[Petespin]

It's not a frivolous claim that Capone was made and served on the Commission. You have Bonanno, Nick Gentile and the other FBI sources all saying the same thing. The idea of Capone being an independent hood seems to come from a pre-1950s/60s understanding of LCN.

THey may have been saying what they felt they needed to say, being informants. Maybe he was made, but I never thought so, and his being made by Massseria makes it sound less credible. Capone was from Naples, Masseria had all Sicilians with him. Maybe he was made, we are all just speculating. Sources and their credibility tend to change with they say. Boanno says neither his nor ever had any drug involmmetnt, no one finds that credible.

[DPG]

It's not a frivolous claim that Capone was made and served on the Commission. You have Bonanno, Nick Gentile and the other FBI sources all saying the same thing. The idea of Capone being an independent hood seems to come from a pre-1950s/60s understanding of LCN.

THey may have been saying what they felt they needed to say, being informants. Maybe he was made, but I never thought so, and his being made by Massseria makes it sound less credible. Capone was from Naples, Masseria had all Sicilians with him. Maybe he was made, we are all just speculating. Sources and their credibility tend to change with they say. Boanno says neither his nor ever had any drug involmmetnt, no one finds that credible.

The myth that Masseria didn't do business with non Sicilians has been debunked many times over I believe. I remember reading that one early informant told his handler that Masseria was laying low at the time because a Jewish jewelry burglar he was partners with had recently been arrested. Just another in a long list of myths used to sell Luciano as the creator of modern oc.

On the subject of Capone being made, his presence at the Atlantic City conference should put that to rest imo.

I believe there should be a discussion on wether Torrio was ever made though. I mean he came to Chicago and worked for Big Jim(who has never been said to have been made correct?). Then by the time Capone was made Torrio was out of the picture in Chicago. But everything you read about post-Chicago Torrio paints him as a 'Elder Statesmen' of the mob who helps Luciano and Lansky create the 'National Crime Syndicate.' If this is the case then who made him and what family was he in?

I would be very interested in everyone's opinion on Torrio and also in any information concerning post-Chicago Torrio.

[Petespin]

It's not a frivolous claim that Capone was made and served on the Commission. You have Bonanno, Nick Gentile and the other FBI sources all saying the same thing. The idea of Capone being an independent hood seems to come from a pre-1950s/60s understanding of LCN.

THey may have been saying what they felt they needed to say, being informants. Maybe he was made, but I never thought so, and his being made by Massseria makes it sound less credible. Capone was from Naples, Masseria had all Sicilians with him. Maybe he was made, we are all just speculating. Sources and their credibility tend to change with they say. Boanno says neither his nor ever had any drug involmmetnt, no one finds that credible.

The myth that Masseria didn't do business with non Sicilians has been debunked many times over I believe. I remember reading that one early informant told his handler that Masseria was laying low at the time because a Jewish jewelry burglar he was partners with had recently been arrested. Just another in a long list of myths used to sell Luciano as the creator of modern oc.

Where did you read that? It's interesting if true.

[Pogo The Clown]

Masseria was one of, if not the first, Boss to make non-Sicilians like Frankie Yale and Vito Genovese into his family. Plus of course he did business with Lucianos Jewish crew members.


Pogo

[DPG]

It's not a frivolous claim that Capone was made and served on the Commission. You have Bonanno, Nick Gentile and the other FBI sources all saying the same thing. The idea of Capone being an independent hood seems to come from a pre-1950s/60s understanding of LCN.

THey may have been saying what they felt they needed to say, being informants. Maybe he was made, but I never thought so, and his being made by Massseria makes it sound less credible. Capone was from Naples, Masseria had all Sicilians with him. Maybe he was made, we are all just speculating. Sources and their credibility tend to change with they say. Boanno says neither his nor ever had any drug involmmetnt, no one finds that credible.

The myth that Masseria didn't do business with non Sicilians has been debunked many times over I believe. I remember reading that one early informant told his handler that Masseria was laying low at the time because a Jewish jewelry burglar he was partners with had recently been arrested. Just another in a long list of myths used to sell Luciano as the creator of modern oc.

Where did you read that? It's interesting if true.

I'm not positive but I believe here:

http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/b ... chinaman-1