bosslt wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:37 am
I think the fact that Violi got made underboss two years after being made really tells all you need to know about the viability of the Buffalo family.
Why? He is of age, probably has a lot of sway in Hamilton, he's got his own guys, and they need someone on that side of the border to manage things there. Who else would be more qualified for the job? Sure he was only made in the Buffalo family 2 years before, but surely the has had a large mafia family pedigree, and who knows if he was also made as a 'ndranghetisti.
Good point- Big Joe would want someone in Hamilton to oversee
the members/activity. Making Dom UB gives Dom the power
necessary to control activity. Gives Big Joe the ability to remain
in the background which he clearly wants.
in a small family it is possible a made man is promoted to underboss in a little while
if buffalo family is viable (like wiretaps seems to proof) has 30 members at most, mainly in canada, the fact is not a big family like the ny ones it doesn't mean it can't be viable, you don't need 200 members like the gambino's
scagghiuni wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:35 am
in a small family it is possible a made man is promoted to underboss in a little while
if buffalo family is viable (like wiretaps seems to proof) has 30 members at most, mainly in canada, the fact is not a big family like the ny ones it doesn't mean it can't be viable, you don't need 200 members like the gambino's
Frank Buscemi was made a Rockford LCN member in May 1959 and was made underboss in October 1961. Of course, his sister was married to the son of boss Joe Zammuto which probably had something to do with his quick rise.
Moscone65 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:59 am
It's not as bad as Ralph Natale going from associate to made then immediately boss. Lightning rod or not, he was still "boss".
But even before Natale stuff like that happened in Philadelphia. Joe Cincaglini Jr. was made in 1991 and he was made underboss in 1992 right? And while I don't personally buy this, Freselone claimed that he was going to be made underboss after being made in 1990. Along with being immediately made captain after getting made. But like I said, I don't buy Freselone's claim. I find it suspicious that those conversations weren't recorded.
bosslt wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:37 am
I think the fact that Violi got made underboss two years after being made really tells all you need to know about the viability of the Buffalo family.
Why? He is of age, probably has a lot of sway in Hamilton, he's got his own guys, and they need someone on that side of the border to manage things there. Who else would be more qualified for the job? Sure he was only made in the Buffalo family 2 years before, but surely the has had a large mafia family pedigree, and who knows if he was also made as a 'ndranghetisti.
Good point- Big Joe would want someone in Hamilton to oversee
the members/activity. Making Dom UB gives Dom the power
necessary to control activity. Gives Big Joe the ability to remain
in the background which he clearly wants.
Moscone65 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:59 am
It's not as bad as Ralph Natale going from associate to made then immediately boss. Lightning rod or not, he was still "boss".
But even before Natale stuff like that happened in Philadelphia. Joe Cincaglini Jr. was made in 1991 and he was made underboss in 1992 right? And while I don't personally buy this, Freselone claimed that he was going to be made underboss after being made in 1990. Along with being immediately made captain after getting made. But like I said, I don't buy Freselone's claim. I find it suspicious that those conversations weren't recorded.
To be honest, after Bruno was killed, things really started going down hill in Philly. Not in activity per say, moreso in organization and smart choices. The only guy that comes to mind that was a solid wiseguy for a leadership position is Ligambi.
Moscone65 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:59 am
It's not as bad as Ralph Natale going from associate to made then immediately boss. Lightning rod or not, he was still "boss".
But even before Natale stuff like that happened in Philadelphia. Joe Cincaglini Jr. was made in 1991 and he was made underboss in 1992 right? And while I don't personally buy this, Freselone claimed that he was going to be made underboss after being made in 1990. Along with being immediately made captain after getting made. But like I said, I don't buy Freselone's claim. I find it suspicious that those conversations weren't recorded.
To be honest, after Bruno was killed, things really started going down hill in Philly. Not in activity per say, moreso in organization and smart choices. The only guy that comes to mind that was a solid wiseguy for a leadership position is Ligambi.
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bosslt wrote:I think the fact that Violi got made underboss two years after being made really tells all you need to know about the viability of the Buffalo family.
It doesn't tell anything. Angelo Bruno was apparantly made boss of the Philly family just a few years after being made. Gotti was elevated to capo instantly after being made. Joe "Le grand boss" Bonanno took over from Maranzano perhaps only a year after his induction...
bosslt wrote:I think the fact that Violi got made underboss two years after being made really tells all you need to know about the viability of the Buffalo family.
It doesn't tell anything. Angelo Bruno was apparantly made boss of the Philly family just a few years after being made. Gotti was elevated to capo instantly after being made. Joe "Le grand boss" Bonanno took over from Maranzano perhaps only a year after his induction...
None of those are modern examples, the last was Natale about 25 years ago.
In my opinion those alleged 30 guys are probably 80% of them over 75 and inactive or involved in low level bookmaking and extortion.
All we have to take is Violi’s word when he was bragging to an informer. He could’ve just being trying to impress the guy with his alleged structure.
I know I don’t take the FBI’s word over this bum any day.
What do modern examples have to do with it, if anything it would be more lose and fluid in this day and age. A guy could be with a family 20-30 years, if he's a doorknob or disliked, he ain't right for an admin position.
bosslt wrote:I think the fact that Violi got made underboss two years after being made really tells all you need to know about the viability of the Buffalo family.
It doesn't tell anything. Angelo Bruno was apparantly made boss of the Philly family just a few years after being made. Gotti was elevated to capo instantly after being made. Joe "Le grand boss" Bonanno took over from Maranzano perhaps only a year after his induction...
None of those are modern examples, the last was Natale about 25 years ago.
In my opinion those alleged 30 guys are probably 80% of them over 75 and inactive or involved in low level bookmaking and extortion.
All we have to take is Violi’s word when he was bragging to an informer. He could’ve just being trying to impress the guy with his alleged structure.
I know I don’t take the FBI’s word over this bum any day.
the informer was a bonanno member, i doubt violi would lie about this
bosslt wrote:I think the fact that Violi got made underboss two years after being made really tells all you need to know about the viability of the Buffalo family.
It doesn't tell anything. Angelo Bruno was apparantly made boss of the Philly family just a few years after being made. Gotti was elevated to capo instantly after being made. Joe "Le grand boss" Bonanno took over from Maranzano perhaps only a year after his induction...
None of those are modern examples, the last was Natale about 25 years ago.
In my opinion those alleged 30 guys are probably 80% of them over 75 and inactive or involved in low level bookmaking and extortion.
All we have to take is Violi’s word when he was bragging to an informer. He could’ve just being trying to impress the guy with his alleged structure.
I know I don’t take the FBI’s word over this bum any day.
It says everything about it how the mob has always functioned if even during the golden days when mob organizations weren't "desperate" which you seem to suggest (unless I'm misinterpreting) people could rise to high positions within a short time.
Violi would be a fool if he was lying to another made member of his status, especially since he's working with the Americans. He could be killed for it and as you may know the guys up there don't shy away from killing people. As a matter of fact he has already jeopardised himself for admitting this on wiretap, if not for his fellow compadres then for LE.
