Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Cheech]

Antimafia:

It's interesting that you ask that question because I was wondering that myself. I have a copy of a U.S. Government Motion To Introduce Evidence Of Bad Acts filed on November 15th of this year in the case against Joseph Cammarano Jr. It states the following:

- (Simone) Esposito, who at the time was the Consigliere of the Bonanno Family, stole approximately $20,000 from the Bonanno Family funds, and as a result, was shelved.

It just says 2015. No Month. But, considering how late in the year you're talking about, Zancocchio could well have been the Consiglieri at that time.

As JD would say, if any more information becomes available this will be updated.

can you post the document?

[Wiseguy]

Looks like buffalo are a viable structured mob family after all

Some guys with titles is one thing. How viable is another. After 20 years of relative inactivity, we have the OTremens bust which was largely a Canadian operation. And we have yet to see if it was anything more than a one off anomaly. So the conclusion you and others here have come to about Buffalo is somewhat premature and misleading. For now, at best Buffalo can be put in that same grey area as Detroit. Alleged hierarchy and membership, but little in the way of activity to support that, and not recognized by the feds.

[Chucky]

Not to stick my nose into this, I don't know shit about Canada or Buffalo aside from the articles I see here, but wouldn't this bust prove that there is still structure there and that the Hamilton side of the Buffalo family is still pretty active?

[Wiseguy]

Not to stick my nose into this, I don't know shit about Canada or Buffalo aside from the articles I see here, but wouldn't this bust prove that there is still structure there and that the Hamilton side of the Buffalo family is still pretty active?

The wiretaps suggest there is still at least some semblance of a structure. But I wouldn't say that one bust equates to them being "pretty active."

[Chucky]

Not to stick my nose into this, I don't know shit about Canada or Buffalo aside from the articles I see here, but wouldn't this bust prove that there is still structure there and that the Hamilton side of the Buffalo family is still pretty active?

The wiretaps suggest there is still at least some semblance of a structure. But I wouldn't say that one bust equates to them being "pretty active."

I was referring the Hamilton guys being active

[Rocco]

Not to stick my nose into this, I don't know shit about Canada or Buffalo aside from the articles I see here, but wouldn't this bust prove that there is still structure there and that the Hamilton side of the Buffalo family is still pretty active?

The wiretaps suggest there is still at least some semblance of a structure. But I wouldn't say that one bust equates to them being "pretty active."

I was referring the Hamilton guys being active

Kinda sounds like Todaro is infact handing the family off to Hamilton. 30members. But how many are actually in Buffalo...?

[moneyman]

More surprising than the Buffalo bit is that Capeci alludes to the Commission as a functioning entity.

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

I think the fact that released official court documents (including his own words on wiretap talking about being Underboss) state that Domenico Violi was made in 2015 and was named as the Buffalo Underboss in 2017 that you can take it to the bank that Buffalo has living LCN structure, also his brother having decide between being made into the Buffalo or Bonanno gives more weight to its existence.

On another note I’m not convinced that the commission exists just because documents say that 3 of the New York families were notified of the goings on with the Buffalo family, that doesn’t constitute the reamergemce of the commission in my opinion.

I concur.

[Pogo The Clown]

Re-read what Capeci actually wrote.

Violi, who was sentenced to eight years in prison for drug dealing Monday, told Morena that Buffalo mob boss Joseph Todaro Jr. told him during a Florida meeting in October of last year that he had "hand-picked him" to be his underboss, according to National Post reporter Adrian Humphreys.


Violi, 52, quoted Todaro as telling him, "Domenic, you know you made history," because no one from Canada had ever held such a high position in an American mob family, Humphreys wrote.

He is just going off by what this guy Humphreys said like everyone else. Like I said the whole thing smells funny. According to this Humphrey the Buffalo fmily had a "resurgence" in 2014. Yet in a 2017 article we have direct statments from the head of the Buffalo FBI office very specifically contradicting that. You can't say "they didn't know" since by this time Morena had been wired up and around these guy's for 2 years.

Again this is a very specific assertion direct from the FBI.

The local FBI once had a large squad of agents working full time on mob cases, but the agency no longer considers the Mafia a presence in this region, according to Adam S. Cohen, special agent in charge of the Buffalo FBI office.

“Some of the individuals who were leaders of the Mafia are still around,” Cohen said. “But their organized crime activities don’t exist anymore. Some of them have legitimate businesses that we know of.”

Though several local men succeeded Magaddino as leaders following his death, no one leads what is left of the mob in this region, Cohen said. Several retired state and local law enforcement officials who specialized in Mafia investigations agreed.

Today, both Cohen and Coppola estimate that there are no more than a handful of surviving mob members in the area, with no viable organization to unite them, and no leader.

The Mafia, and the way of life that fostered the Mafia, is pretty much gone,” said Lee Coppola, 73, a former federal prosecutor and news reporter who grew up among mobsters and their families on Buffalo’s West Side.

“Most of the men who were responsible for the mob murders in Buffalo are dead,” he said. “The hit men who committed the murders are dead.”

And no young people have emerged to replace them, Coppola said.

The belief among law enforcement officials now is that La Nova pizza is so successful that Todaro Jr. would be too busy to be involved in mob activities

the FBI’s contention that the Buffalo mob family no longer is active and no longer has a leader.

https://buffalonews.com/2017/03/19/fbi- ... perations/

So really it comes down to what you want to believe. The FBI or Humphrey.


Pogo

[Frank]

I can't say that it completely shuts down the idea that "John" LNU is Zancocchio and I'm not even sure he held rank at the time, but if Zancocchio was at least a captain or consigliere by that time, the formal introduction would likely have included his title. From what's been shared of the transcript there was a discussion of the crew's captain or acting captain following that introduction, too, so there was a discussion of titles. It would be interesting to know if Zummo also named the administration, as that is typical at an induction. Again, though, this was a verbal-only ceremony common, which despite being common to the Bonannos, is hardly traditional. If it were Zancocchio he would have been the most senior member present, having been made in the 1980s and possibly holding rank.

As for the Violis, it would be a major shock if Giuseppe attended the ceremony as an associate. Like I said before, inducted members of different families are still part of the same organization, just different branches. The only unmade members at a ceremony would be the proposed members being inducted, so it seems more likely Giuseppe Violi was made before this ceremony if he attended, regardless of which family he may have been made into. The only times I've heard of an associate in connection with a ceremony is as a "spotter" or some other outside role, i.e. Tommy Scafidi of Philadelphia wouldn't be made until the early 90s, but he stood outside of a 1986 making ceremony to watch for LE or other.

In Ed's research on San Jose informants, he mentioned how John Misuraca of the Profaci family sponsored two members into the San Jose family even though he wasn't a member of that group. He did have relatives in that family, including a brother he was sponsoring. From the sound of it he didn't attend the ceremony (though I'm not sure on that) but sponsoring members into another family is not far off from a member attending another family's ceremony, and to me it's honestly even more strange in its own right. Given that the Violis' father had been a high-ranking Bonanno member there were at least historical connections between them and the Bonanno family, which may have been a factor.

B I think you definitely got it correct as of why a Buffalo member or members would be at a Bonanno making ceremony. Seeing that Morena would be working with the Violas in interfamily business and the Bonanno leaders traveling, why would they not do the making and the introducing of Morena as amico nostra all at one time. Why leave town and then come back. Also because the making was on Buffalo turf, out of respect to the Buffalo Family. Also the past examples show that this happens once in a while. I haven't seen anything about Gieseppe Viola's affiliation yet. Whether he was ever made and to which Family hasn't been mentioned. Like you said he must of got made to be at the ceremony. Unless since he was with his brother they they didn't mind. But It shows how close the Bonanno and Buffalo Families are working together in Canada for him to not know or maybe even getting to choose which Family to join. It must basically be that his duties are in a joint partnership with both Families. That it doesn't matter which Family he gets made in, that the monies are divded up. So to me it seems that in the past the Violas must of been associates to both Families, how else would that explain not knowing which Family you would be joining.

[B.]

I don't understand how running a successful pizza business would prevent someone from holding the title of boss. Mafia hisory is filled with successful (and unsuccessful) businessman holding high-ranking positions, even boss, with little to no involvement in day-to-day criminal activities. From what has come of this Violi case, Todaro could very well be removed from criminal activity and still preside over the formalities of a mafia family, like appointing an underboss.

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding on here over what a mafia family is. Would be great if the DiLeonardo Q&A were still active, as I believe he would be able to give some insight into how this works and why a group like Buffalo could be a fully-structured family, capable of meeting with other families, without necessarily being a criminal powerhouse. It seems to be beyond my abilities to break it down despite plenty of effort over the years.

[scagghiuni]

i would agree with you, but we have the violi's wiretaps here and he clearly said buffalo family is viable and with a structure (boss, underboss, capos etc.) with 30 members
it was almost inactive in buffalo for years and it started only recently making members on canadian side and the fbi thought it was dead
in buffalo it is probably active only in gambling and money laundering

And like I said, we've seen the same claims about a structure and comparable membership for years regarding Detroit. Yet, there's been relatively little mob activity there.

Wiretaps or no, after 20 years of similarly little mob activity in Buffalo, it will take more than one case to convince me this wasn't just an anomaly.

yes but there are wiretaps here, it's more than speculations

[moneyman]

I don't understand how running a successful pizza business would prevent someone from holding the title of boss. Mafia hisory is filled with successful (and unsuccessful) businessman holding high-ranking positions, even boss, with little to no involvement in day-to-day criminal activities. From what has come of this Violi case, Todaro could very well be removed from criminal activity and still preside over the formalities of a mafia family, like appointing an underboss.

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding on here over what a mafia family is. Would be great if the DiLeonardo Q&A were still active, as I believe he would be able to give some insight into how this works and why a group like Buffalo could be a fully-structured family, capable of meeting with other families, without necessarily being a criminal powerhouse. It seems to be beyond my abilities to break it down despite plenty of effort over the years.

A while back I think you mentioned that the best book to read about what the mafia is all about is "Men of Dishonor" the book about Antonino Calderone. If I remember right you were alluding to the fact that the mafia is first and foremost a fraternal organization. Am I remembering this correctly?

[B.]

I don't understand how running a successful pizza business would prevent someone from holding the title of boss. Mafia hisory is filled with successful (and unsuccessful) businessman holding high-ranking positions, even boss, with little to no involvement in day-to-day criminal activities. From what has come of this Violi case, Todaro could very well be removed from criminal activity and still preside over the formalities of a mafia family, like appointing an underboss.

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding on here over what a mafia family is. Would be great if the DiLeonardo Q&A were still active, as I believe he would be able to give some insight into how this works and why a group like Buffalo could be a fully-structured family, capable of meeting with other families, without necessarily being a criminal powerhouse. It seems to be beyond my abilities to break it down despite plenty of effort over the years.

A while back I think you mentioned that the best book to read about what the mafia is all about is "Men of Dishonor" the book about Antonino Calderone. If I remember right you were alluding to the fact that the mafia is first and foremost a fraternal organization. Am I remembering this correctly?

A fraternal organization with its own (un)ethics and (anti-)morality. For a similar example to Todaro, you can look at leaders like Carl Caputo, the Corbis of Baltimore, the Maggios of Philadelphia, and countless others who had successful cheese businesses that took up most of their time while serving as leading mafia figures in their cities. A lot of that success was due to mafia connections but it doesn't seem that those businesses benefited from criminal activity, at least nothing that a "normal" businessman wouldn't do to cut corners. You can look at Tom Gagliano of NYC as well. Better researchers than I, as well as Joe Valachi, have said that he was barely if at all involved in supervising criminal activity and may not even have taken much of a cut from his family members' activities, focusing instead on his contracting business and other legit interests, while his underboss Lucchese was actively involved in street activities and was more or less the "street boss". Does that mean Gagliano wasn't a top boss, Commission member, and highly-respected figure who could weigh in on mafia politics? He was all of those things by all accounts.

In this case, if Todaro is or was the boss in recent years, his status in the mafia has nothing to do with his own criminal involvement or even the criminal activities of his family. It does look like Violi, if his own words are true, was the underboss and involved in criminal activity given that this information came out of a criminal case against Violi. It doesn't mean Violi is overseeing some massive criminal empire as the underboss, but many people believe the Calabrian groups with historic ties (i.e. possible membership) with the Buffalo family have plenty going on in Canada, so who knows.

And yep, I highly recommend Calderone's book for the best understanding of the so-called "Cosa Nostra" mafia, but I also believe Joe Bonanno told a lot of truths as well despite the fact that he cut out a lot of the nefarious activities he and his family were involved in; those omissions don't make some of his other explanations wrong, just skewed. Celeste Morello also wasn't wrong despite her agenda to prove all of the old Philly Sicilians were business-oriented gentlemen -- she is like an outsider version of Bonanno, but that doesn't mean she was completely wrong. Many other sources, especially the ones with more historical knowledge, back this up in my opinion. I believe if we could get DiLeonardo's take on this he would support this.

Many people, even people who have followed this for a long time, have a "Sopranos" sort of vision of things, where a mafia family's status depends on controlling local rackets, meeting some imagined quota of illegal income, and following the same "kicking up" procedure we see from Christopher and Paulie Walnuts. Sure, those things are a reality, too, but they aren't the full spectrum of what the mafia is. The problem is on the other side you have had people who try to say that the mafia was originally some kind of benevolent organization of gentlemen and not criminal at all ("Legitimate Businessmen Social Club" - Simpsons) -- that's definitely not true either and none of it is black and white. The mafia always has thrived on grey areas and entire communities of people wouldn't have accepted it for so long if that weren't the case.

[Pogo The Clown]

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding on here over what a mafia family is. Would be great if the DiLeonardo Q&A were still active, as I believe he would be able to give some insight into how this works and why a group like Buffalo could be a fully-structured family, capable of meeting with other families, without necessarily being a criminal powerhouse. It seems to be beyond my abilities to break it down despite plenty of effort over the years.

Some informants have talked about it.

Angelo Lonardo testified in the 80s how there was "no family in Cleveland. It was destroyed." Even though he knew there were still living members, that John Tronolone was the "Boss" and had dealings with NY. The remaining members were still recognized cosa nostra members but Lonardo considered the Cleveland family itsef as finished.

Ralph Natale said something similiar when he talked about how Billy D'Elia was the last member left in Scranton. Philly still recognized D'Elia as a cosa nostra member and delt with him but evidently Natale considered the Buflino family as done.

Jimmy Frattiano said something simliar about SF in his book. How in the 70s he said 'there is no OC in SF. just 4 old guy's with Lanza" as he set up shop in the city. Lanza and co. were still cosa nostra members but evidently Frattiano no longer considered the family to still be around.

We also having Michael Franzese saying how there are only 9 families remaining even though I'm sure he knew there were still living members in other cities.

Really this is no different than Birmingham voting to disband in the 30s or Madison in the 60s. In both cases when the lack of cohesion and oc activity was gone or reached a certain level the remaining members got together and formally voted to disband the organization. Except now they don't go through the formality of voting to disband. Now it just withers away. Like so many formalities it has gone by the wayside.


Pogo