Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Wiseguy]

[snip]

If Joe was paying tribute to his brother it means he was 'with' him as an associate and probably means he was made into the Buffalo family. I don't see any reason why Dom and Joe as Buffalo members wouldn't be able to attend the Bonanno ceremony considering the circumstances. I'd also venture to say the mysterious 'John' who also attended the ceremony was John Zancocchio.

Since when do American LCN families allow at their induction ceremonies made members from other families or other secret societies? Do you have any evidence of this? When was the last time two American LCN families had a joint making ceremony? The Violi brothers' presence at a Bonanno ceremony is highly unusual.

There is no reason to guess that Zancocchio was one of the at-least-five attendees at Morena's ceremony, as Humphreys alluded to this in his article yesterday, even naming Zancocchio. gohnjotti also mentioned Zanoccchio yesterday as a result of reading Humphreys's article. (Humphreys's older November 2017 article regarding Project OTremens indicated there was someone present at the ceremony with first name "John.")

So if Domenico Violi didn't get made into the Buffalo Family till January 2015, as he stated, what was his status before then? when Sal Montagna was dealing with him prior to being murdered in November 2011? Was Montagna dealing with a Buffalo Family associate or a Bonanno Family associate/member? And if yes to the former, why was a Buffalo Family associate allegedly involved in the murders of high-profile Montreal Mafia members?

Unless one wants to believe Bill Bonanno's hilarious story of his own induction, I've never heard of people from another family attending a making ceremony. Capeci has said it's unheard of.

[CabriniGreen]

This is why I find the interactions between the mafias, especially in terms of trafficking THROUGH each others territory highly interesting....


@antimafia

I'm trying to understand how you think there are still questions about their affiliation, NOW. They explained it clear as day, no?

I've been trying to point out for awhile, the underworld is changing , everyone seems to want it to be the 80s forever.....

lol, I'm just asking questions trying to figure shit out,
I dont know why you come at me so hostile, " Fanboy", like wtf? I respect your opinion, but you are getting a little mad it seems cause the Bonnano assumption was a little off, it's no big deal....

" Magical powers ", " Fanboys".... I'm not the one who just readily accepts and believes the Bonnanos have some mystic, magical hold on Canada, with the phantom crew NO ONE can name, doing mental gymnastics to make the Violis Bonnano members.

And I was one of the people from the beginning who said, that today, Buffalo may mean Ontario more than actually Buffalo.

Also, you never said why the hell Violi would transfer from the Bonnanos to Buffalo, then apparently attend a Bonnano ceremony because he wanted to transfer BACK? It's the m as fia, not a goddamb sports team, lol

But Great stuff fellas, keep asking we questions, carry on....

[johnny_scootch]

Since when do American LCN families allow at their induction ceremonies made members from other families or other secret societies? Do you have any evidence of this? When was the last time two American LCN families had a joint making ceremony? The Violi brothers' presence at a Bonanno ceremony is highly unusual.

There is no reason to guess that Zancocchio was one of the at-least-five attendees at Morena's ceremony, as Humphreys alluded to this in his article yesterday, even naming Zancocchio. gohnjotti also mentioned Zanoccchio yesterday as a result of reading Humphreys's article. (Humphreys's older November 2017 article regarding Project OTremens indicated there was someone present at the ceremony with first name "John.")

So if Domenico Violi didn't get made into the Buffalo Family till January 2015, as he stated, what was his status before then? when Sal Montagna was dealing with him prior to being murdered in November 2011? Was Montagna dealing with a Buffalo Family associate or a Bonanno Family associate/member? And if yes to the former, why was a Buffalo Family associate allegedly involved in the murders of high-profile Montreal Mafia members?

No antimafia obviously I have no evidence I'm just trying to make sense of the whole thing. There are no past instances I could site besides the one Wiseguy mentioned which coming from Bill B. is highly suspicious. We know Morena was being inducted into the Bonannos and we know Dom Violi was a Buffalo member, his brother Joe had to be member of one or the other so Why would they do this? I can only assume that the lack of Bonanno members in Hamilton was a big part of it. While its clear it doesn't happen often or hardly ever I don't see it being some huge violation of protocol for the Bonannos to have invited one or two Buffalo members who are close associates of theirs. Could have been done out of sheer respect being that the Bonannos were making a guy in Hamilton which is Buffalo family territory. It could have been done for many reasons but bottom line for me is they are all Cosa Nostra so I don't see it breaking any rules.

I guessed it was John Zancocchio because the article said it was him who sent word to the Buffalo members so again it seemed to me he knows those guys somehow and we know there was a John present at the making ceremony so it was just me putting one and two together. It very well end up adding to three but on the surface it seems right.

When Montagna was dealing with Dom he was simply a highly placed associate of the Buffalo family whose grandfather father and uncles were all made guys. If Montagna was looking for allies to fight the Rizzuto's the Violi's seem like logical partners. Why would a Buffalo associate be involved? Why not! The action was approved by the highest ranking Bonanno in Canada (Montagna) so it would be the perfect time to get some measure of revenge for the murder of their father and uncles.

[Sol]

Looks like it's crow for dinner.

The National Post is run by CEO Paul Godfrey of Post Media who is an Anti-White Jew. In 2006 a big article was written by the National Post about Iran forcing minorities to wear badges. The article was called " IRAN EYES BADGES FOR JEWS". The article circulated and other World Leaders questioned it being a completely false story. The Canadian Prime Minister had to intervene because of the outrage at the "fake news" story. About a month later the Publisher at National Post submitted a written apology about the Article being FALSE and said that the National Post had not exercised caution or checked enough sources. They are no different than the National Enquirer as far as reporting "Stories".

So, you can eat your own crow for dinner and believe them and I'll believe the F.B.I.

What does this racial bullshit has to do with the validity of Humphrey's article? Please keep these kind of discussions out of these threads.

You don't get it. It shows that the National Post is prone to spreading "Stories" they buy from sources that are not verified like the National Enquirer does in America of which you probably don't know since you live in Europe. 90% of the Media in America is controlled by Jews who are subversive and spread fake news. The National Post is no different in spreading the false belief that the Buffalo Mafia (which is White people) is a functioning criminal Mafia Group with a hierarchy. The Feds have said the Family has been defunct for a long time. I would believe the Feds over this bullshit story. That's what it has to do with it. If you don't agree, then believe what you want but I'll express my opinion about certain news outlets anytime I please and give my reasons for it. I don't need your permission or approval.

Confederate, do me a favor and keep this type of post off the forums. Mods delete all post like this from here on out, this type of propaganda is not for TBHF.......Soliai

[NickleCity]

So if Domenico Violi didn't get made into the Buffalo Family till January 2015, as he stated, what was his status before then? when Sal Montagna was dealing with him prior to being murdered in November 2011? Was Montagna dealing with a Buffalo Family associate or a Bonanno Family associate/member? And if yes to the former, why was a Buffalo Family associate allegedly involved in the murders of high-profile Montreal Mafia members?

You have some good questions there, but I think we have to consider what Schneider snider wrote as well. He indicated law enforcement believed they were being groomed for leadership in the Todaro family. He wrote:

In April 1995, twenty-eight-year-old Domenic Violi and his twenty-four-year-old brother Giuseppe were among eight people arrested in what the Hamilton-Wentworth deputy police chief called the city’s “most significant drug bust involving organized crime” in more than a quarter century. Domenic and Giuseppe were the sons of deceased Montreal mobster Paolo Violi and his widow, Grazia, herself the daughter of Giacomo Luppino, the long-time leader of the Hamilton wing of the Magaddino Family. She had moved back to her hometown following the 1978 death of her husband and raised her two boys in Hamilton, where police believe they were being groomed for leadership positions within the local Magaddino crew. The eight men were accused of conspiring to smuggle cocaine from Colombia to Ontario via the U.S. The police operation culminated with the seizure of more than 100 kilos of cocaine in Joplin, Missouri, and four kilos in Toronto. Along with four others, Giuseppe pleaded guilty to conspiracy to import a narcotic, although charges were withdrawn against his brother Domenic.

Schneider, also, indicates Lee Coppola believed the Violi's were under the Todaro Flag in the 90's.

So the question is not only what was Dominc's status before 2015, but what was it in the '90's. If Schneider was right and you are right it would make him a Todaro family asssociate, then a Bonanno associate, then Todaro again where he is made and elevated to the underboss position. I think Cabrina has a good point when he said asked ...

...why the hell Violi would transfer from the Bonnanos to Buffalo, then apparently attend a Bonnano ceremony because he wanted to transfer BACK? It's the m as fia, not a goddamb sports team, lol

I have a hard time thinking he jumped ships three different times. And how does a family trust someone in this kind of leadership position that quick if just a few years ago he was Bonanno.

If I recall Anna Sergi indicated the lines between families have become much more fluid as they work together in the drug trade...maybe this new way of operating has families attending each other's making ceremonies.

[Confederate]

Looks like it's crow for dinner.

The National Post is run by CEO Paul Godfrey of Post Media who is an Anti-White Jew. In 2006 a big article was written by the National Post about Iran forcing minorities to wear badges. The article was called " IRAN EYES BADGES FOR JEWS". The article circulated and other World Leaders questioned it being a completely false story. The Canadian Prime Minister had to intervene because of the outrage at the "fake news" story. About a month later the Publisher at National Post submitted a written apology about the Article being FALSE and said that the National Post had not exercised caution or checked enough sources. They are no different than the National Enquirer as far as reporting "Stories".

So, you can eat your own crow for dinner and believe them and I'll believe the F.B.I.

What does this racial bullshit has to do with the validity of Humphrey's article? Please keep these kind of discussions out of these threads.

You don't get it. It shows that the National Post is prone to spreading "Stories" they buy from sources that are not verified like the National Enquirer does in America of which you probably don't know since you live in Europe. 90% of the Media in America is controlled by Jews who are subversive and spread fake news. The National Post is no different in spreading the false belief that the Buffalo Mafia (which is White people) is a functioning criminal Mafia Group with a hierarchy. The Feds have said the Family has been defunct for a long time. I would believe the Feds over this bullshit story. That's what it has to do with it. If you don't agree, then believe what you want but I'll express my opinion about certain news outlets anytime I please and give my reasons for it. I don't need your permission or approval.

Confederate, do me a favor and keep this type of post off the forums. Mods delete all post like this from here on out, this type of propaganda is not for TBHF.......Soliai

Will do. I hate the Media with all their fake news but I was wrong for posting what I did in this thread. I apologize.

[B.]

I'm enjoying this new info and see no reason why it should be an emotional discussion or why anyone's ego needs to be invested in anything that's been written so far. Let's enjoy this and have a discussion, not ruin it with ill-natured back-and-forth arguments.

What Constitutes a "Cosa Nostra" Mafia Family 101

Since I have been riffing on St. Louis so much lately, you can look at them as an example. All informants and their own members referred to them as a nearly defunct organization in the 1960s, but they still had a full administration, at least one capodecina, and 20+ members during that period, and only select members were making money illegally. Still, the STL membership were able to meet and do business, big and small, with members of other mafia families throughout the US and at no point did other families tell them they were "too small" or had too little criminal activity going on for them to recognize them as a family with ranks and membership. Opportunities still existed, and more importantly they were still recognized by other groups. Crimes and peak periods come and go, sometimes changing, but the organizational structure and recognition by other groups does not go away unless a group formally disbands and we have few examples of that officially happening, though some groups do seem to have completely died out due to old age and attrituion.

It appears from these developments that Buffalo, a "Cosa Nostra" mafia family, still has an organizational structure and membership which includes its Hamilton membership, the latter of which has been in place now for many decades and is hardly "news". I'm not going to weigh in on whether they are "criminally viable" or anything else about their importance, but this new information which has been mentioned by multiple sources and generally reputable journalists tells us that the Buffalo mafia family has not been disbanded and still has an organizational structure, including members in leadership positions. I don't see any argument against those basic facts, assuming what came out in the Violi case is even half-accurate.

I question the use of "Commission", though that has at times been used incorrectly simply to refer to NYC bosses in general and it's overall a minor detail in all of this. We heard for years, even from some reputable sources, that NYC held a "Commission" meeting during the Joe Massino era and though a meeting of top five families leaders did happen at this point, when Massino defected he claimed there hadn't been a formal Commission in place since the 1980s which shows that the term "Commission" was just being used casually to refer to this meeting of NYC leadership.

We also don't know the full extent of everything going on in the US mafia at any point in its history, let alone now, and as evidenced by some of our best researchers we are continually finding out new, interesting details from periods we thought we had completely covered. It would be vain to pretend that we know everything that is going on in recent years simply based on journalists and what limited information LE makes available outside of indictments. Information could come to light in 20 years and one little FBI report about 2018 could completely change our perception about something we thought we had mapped out.

Members of Multiple Families Attending a Making Ceremony

I do agree it is strange that a Buffalo member may have attended a Bonanno ceremony, though remember that the "Cosa Nostra" mafia is one organization and families are branches. It raises some questions, but it's not necessarily some kind of jarring revolution in the way they operate, especially in an area like Canada with relatively few made members. It may have been done for convenience so that the Buffalo-Ontario members could be easily introduced to the new Bonanno member while the visiting Bonanno leader and members were still in town to make the formal introduction. Without knowing the identity of Bonanno member "John", I believe the Bonanno members involved in the Morena case were all visiting from out of town, so inviting the Violis may have been to ensure the formal introduction as amico nostra took place before they left, especially if they felt there was LE scrutiny that may have prevented a later meeting of that nature. It would be important to make sure the new Bonanno member Morena was recognized as amico nostra by other amico nostra members in Canada. We should also note that, like many other Bonanno ceremonies as documented by LCNBios, this was a very informal verbal-only ceremony and the informal nature may have made it less questionable to invite a member of another family. (Side note, but from what's been released of the making ceremony, "John" was introduced simply as a Bonanno member. Zancocchio was a ranking member, I believe, during this time and would have been introduced with a title if it were him.)

Also, Joe Valachi's induction was attended by members of both the Bonanno and Lucchese families. There was a war-time alliance in place, but they were separate mafia families prior to the war and after, and to the best of my knowledge they were still formally distinct groups during the war but simply operating in conjunction. I have vague memories of seeing some other information about members of different groups attending in Sicily and possibly early US, but I'd have to dig quite a bit. EDIT: It may be a reach, but we even discussed in this very thread how Stefano Magaddino was believed to have been made into the Bonanno family in Chicago. EDIT 2: Los Angeles member Jimmy Fratianno attended and helped conduct an induction ceremony for the Cleveland mafia in the 1970s. EDIT 3: I believe Felice mentioned something about a Gambino ceremony in NYC that included Sicilian mafiosi in attendance, not sure it was ever substantiated though his info is almost always excellent. Along those lines, JD's info about Domenico Cefalu's 1990 induction describes his uncle Riccardo, a native of Sicily, being "allowed to attend" which despite the assumption that Riccardo is a Gambino member does lend itself to questioning based on the wording.

I would be more surprised to hear that members of multiple families were inducted in the same ceremony than to hear that members of multiple families attended a ceremony, especially since there is at least a little bit of precedent for the latter.

--

Anyway, this is a fun development! I love following the mafia and when new, thought-provoking stuff comes out. Let's enjoy the fact that it's the holiday season and we have fun stuff to theorize about and talk about since we're all into this little niche that gets little coverage these days. You want to talk about dying families? Think about how public interest in the mafia has died out over the years and be grateful you have people to discuss this with.

[antimafia]

This is why I find the interactions between the mafias, especially in terms of trafficking THROUGH each others territory highly interesting....


@antimafia

I'm trying to understand how you think there are still questions about their affiliation, NOW. They explained it clear as day, no?

I've been trying to point out for awhile, the underworld is changing , everyone seems to want it to be the 80s forever.....

lol, I'm just asking questions trying to figure shit out,
I dont know why you come at me so hostile, " Fanboy", like wtf? I respect your opinion, but you are getting a little mad it seems cause the Bonnano assumption was a little off, it's no big deal....

" Magical powers ", " Fanboys".... I'm not the one who just readily accepts and believes the Bonnanos have some mystic, magical hold on Canada, with the phantom crew NO ONE can name, doing mental gymnastics to make the Violis Bonnano members.

And I was one of the people from the beginning who said, that today, Buffalo may mean Ontario more than actually Buffalo.

Also, you never said why the hell Violi would transfer from the Bonnanos to Buffalo, then apparently attend a Bonnano ceremony because he wanted to transfer BACK? It's the m as fia, not a goddamb sports team, lol

But Great stuff fellas, keep asking we questions, carry on....

Um, did you carefully read what I wrote in response to your question about the one-day hearing and the four additional questions you had in your post (points 1 through 4)?

As for your other questions, I'll try to answer throughout the day. Here's my response to your point 1 above:

1. Vincenzo Morena's Bonanno induction ceremony was taped in November 2015. Because Anna Sergi had access to court filings that show Domenico and Giuseppe Violi attended it, my and others' feeling, opinion, or hunch was (is?) that the two brothers were already made into the Bonanno Family by virtue of their attending. A strong argument can be made that deducing their status as made Bonannos is more than a feeling, opinion, or hunch. If you assert--I'm not pointing you out personally--that the Violi brothers were Buffalo Family members at the time they attended Morena's induction into the Bonannos, then you are either in one of two camps: 1) you believe that any made member of the Buffalo Family has magical powers that permit him to witness another American LCN family's secret induction ceremony, or 2) you are an 'ndrangheta fanboy who believes that Calabrians in Canada who are unquestioningly presumed to be 'ndrangheta members can, also because of magical powers, simultaneously be made into an American LCN family.

So now, if I don't answer all of your questions within several hours, I no longer am deserving of your "@antimafia Good post" praise. Got it. Tell us all, who's really the one who got a little mad?

NickleCity would be the first to tell you he's not objective. Nor is Giacomo_Vacari on the Gangster BB board, who has been caught lying here and over there. Nor was the banned poster The_Rooster on the Gangster BB board, with whom you may share a certain perspective (see farther below). Do you remember how he answered when I told the board there that Buffalo Family member Ignazio "Harold" Bordonaro of Ontario was dead? First, keep in mind that The_Rooster claimed Bordonaro was active. Then, in response to my evidence Bordonaro was dead, The_Rooster responded that Bordonaro is not dead and that the information I provided was about an individual with the same name. Although I'm loath to quote posts from other organized-crime forums, I can't help but quote this gem from The_Rooster:

He must be a brother or son, because there is an active member with the last name Bordonaro.

Reminded me of the characters on the Newhart show: Larry, Darryl, and Larry's other brother, also Darryl.

The post continued as follows:

As far as the dual membership, can we not argue that members like Vito Rizzuto had tri membership regardless of the specific sanctions or regulations that were put on them by other higher ups? Who holds the official say and final order? There is no God of the Mafia, even when it comes to a commission, rules are broken all the time.

I just think in todays age its a lot more fluid than we as outsiders will ever know,regardless of past reports. And to think that the old rules still apply in 2018 is kind of naiive.

So how am I supposed to take an opinion like the one above seriously when the poster will do anything to claim that a deceased member of the Buffalo Family is active?

So the three articles published yesterday are the slam dunk that, apart from supposedly proving other contentious claims, finally proves the mafia affiliation of Domenico and Giuseppe Violi? Let's see. The brothers have almost always been referred to as 'ndrangheta members, even by Canadian reporters and organized-crime authors, in articles and books published since 2010. The brothers appeared in Montreal one week before Nick Rizzuto Sr. was killed in November 2010, and according to newspaper articles written about the brothers' presence, it signalled they were ready to take over at the helm of the Montreal Mafia. Domenico Violi is heard on tape saying that he was made in the Buffalo Family in January 2015, but eight or nine months later--in November 2015--he and his brother are, according to court filings, present at the taped Bonanno induction ceremony for Vincenzo Morena at which ranking Bonanno members such as Damiano Zummo (acting captain at the time) and probably John Zancocchio (consigliere at the time?) are also there, as were, presumably, other made Bonannos. What were the special circumstances that permitted the Violi brothers to be at that ceremony? Did Giuseppe Violi finally choose to be made into the Bonannos prior to that ceremony? Was he, along with Domenico, made at that ceremony? (If they were, would that have come out by now?) If Domenico was already a made man before being inducted into the Buffalo Family in January 2015, did he give up 'ndrangheta membership to do so? Or was he not even a made man before January 2015?

Over the years, I have changed my opinion about into which mafia family these Violis were initiated. Initially, the natural tendency, in the absence of concrete evidence, was to believe that they were either 'ndrangheta members or Buffalo Family members (but I did not believe the brothers could simultaneously be both.) After Mafia inc. was published in November 2010, I thought of Domenico Violi as a made man who was a 'ndrangheta member but I was suspicious about the claims of his actual involvement in the Montreal mob war. After the Department of Justice put out its November 9, 2017 statement about the co-ordinated takedown in Canada (Project OTremens) and the US, I first started to wonder whether Domenico and his brother were 'ndrangheta members at all but Buffalo Family members instead. After Anna Sergi had her June 2018 article published in Jane's Intelligence Review, I further started to question whether the Violis, along with their grandfather and uncles, were 'ndrangheta members, leaning instead to the conclusion that, in the absence of other strong evidence, the Violis were Bonanno members because of their presence at the taped Bonanno induction ceremony, which is very strong evidence; and that the Luppinos were Buffalo Family members because some Luppinos, including Giacomo, were not only present at Paul Volpe's induction ceremony in the early 1960 but also his sponsors. Before the publication of yesterday's articles, thinking that the Violis transferred from the Buffalo Family to the Bonanno Family was not inconceivable. But now we read that Domenico apparently wasn't even made into the Buffalo Family till January 2015, which would make unlikely his then transferring to the Bonanno Family before the November 2015 taped Bonanno induction ceremony.

If I had never read Anna Sergi's article, I would have had an easier time agreeing that Domenico Violi was a Buffalo Family member and that his brother decided to be made into this family instead of the Bonannos.

Anyone is welcome to believe and argue that dual membership exists, but I always question why mobwatchers believe in its reality, regardless of whether they are published authors or ordinary posters on these boards. Anna Sergi told me in London this past summer that she believes in double affiliation--I don't, as I will only change my mind when I see more tangible evidence--and she confirmed that she believes Carmelo Bruzzese was both an 'ndrangheta member and a member of the Rizzuto organization despite the verdict that Bruzzese was not guilty of being a member of a Cosa Nostra group. She and I obviously disagreed about Domenico and Giuseppe Violi's double affiliation, and her tendency was to believe in the Violis being both members of the 'ndrangheta and a Buffalo-based Todaro syndicate, despite her own information about the brothers' presence at Morena's induction ceremony. Let's not forget that she wrote in her article that the Buffalo Family was no longer part of the American LCN, which she only could have argued with help from the numerous American authorities she consulted. I believe that if the American LCN requires transfers from one American LCN family to another, then I also believe that the American LCN would also require that members of another secret society renounce membership in the first society before being admitted to an American LCN family.

I am not and have not been opposed to reading that Canadian mobsters in Ontario have interaction with American mobsters in upstate New York, and vice versa. I've been reading such articles since June of this year. There is a certain relish that at least some Canadian mobwatchers take in knowing that there is communication and collaboration between Italian crime groups here and those across the border. I have also read articles since more than a year ago about the demise of the Hamilton mafia, in particular the Musitano crime group, only to determine that the articles were wrong.

Calmer observers have noted that if what Domenico Violi said in recorded conversations is true, he is susceptible to the same accusations that were levelled at his father, Paolo, for allowing an undercover agent to live in the apartment above the Reggio Bar that Paolo owned and to record what Paolo was saying. We cannot take lightly that there was no independent corroboration of what Domenico Violi told Morena: that there is a Commission, that Domenico was made in January 2015, that Domenico became underboss in October 2017, and that the Buffalo Family has 30 made members. Independent corroboration would have been, for example, an informant within the Buffalo Family or an infiltrating police agent witnessing Domenico's induction ceremony, being privy to Domenico's appointment to underboss, and naming 30 made members. Had Morena been able to testify yesterday, he might have explained what the Violi brothers were doing at his ceremony, what family they belonged to, and whether he heard from others that Domenico was telling him the truth about being made in January 2015 and being promoted to underboss in October 2017. Time will tell if what Domenico Violi said on tape is true.

[antimafia]

I'm enjoying this new info... [snip]

Peter Edwards wrote the following in his article from yesterday, December 4 (I posted a link earlier):

Detailed transcripts of the agent’s activities in the Violi brothers’ cases were not made public, but some of his conversations were filed in American courts.

I hope that Capeci and other American organized-crime writers and journalists try to get their hands on these transcripts, especially if some of the conversations Morena had with Domenico Violi are made available.

[B.]

I'm enjoying this new info... [snip]

Peter Edwards wrote the following in his article from yesterday, December 4 (I posted a link earlier):

Detailed transcripts of the agent’s activities in the Violi brothers’ cases were not made public, but some of his conversations were filed in American courts.

I hope that Capeci and other American organized-crime writers and journalists try to get their hands on these transcripts, especially if some of the conversations Morena had with Domenico Violi are made available.

Absolutely! Thanks for the heads up.

[CabriniGreen]

@antimafia

If you go back to that thread on Gbb, I flat out told everyone arguing over whether there is or isnt a Buffalo is a waste of time until more info comes out. I said FOCUS ON THE VIOLIS AFFILIATION, it will shed light on the structures in Canada. I said that, I did, lol

Dont lump me in with Fuckin Rooster, I never interacted with rooster, lol

You frustrated me only because you were VERY insistent the Violis were Bonnano members, Almost smug, even.... And you are still kinda insistent, THAT I dont understand. One guy is Buffalo, one isnt ed ven made yet,.. End o f.c Story, No? okay....

Business or Blood, it says the Musitanos had contracts on the Violis AND Luppinos, but the hitman didnt want to take the contracts.

If they were Bonnanos then, why would NY give a green light on em, THEN? What did they do?
If the Rizzutos were still answering to NY, why would they be putting hits on guys in thier OWN family? For another of their CREWS?

Business or Blood has Vito meeting with Buffalo people in 2001.....


I asked you guys, why the Violis never showed up on any of the well researched charts. Silence, Crickets....

I asked WHO from Canada was represented when the Bonnanos had that big family meeting at the restaurant. Did anyone come down? I even asked if the Bronx capo represented the Canadian interest. Silence, crickets again....

So to me, they had to have been made recently, like VERY recently....

Again, what's with hostility? It reminds me of Hairy cause it seems outta nowhere....

[Lupara]

[snip]

If Joe was paying tribute to his brother it means he was 'with' him as an associate and probably means he was made into the Buffalo family. I don't see any reason why Dom and Joe as Buffalo members wouldn't be able to attend the Bonanno ceremony considering the circumstances. I'd also venture to say the mysterious 'John' who also attended the ceremony was John Zancocchio.

Since when do American LCN families allow at their induction ceremonies made members from other families or other secret societies? Do you have any evidence of this? When was the last time two American LCN families had a joint making ceremony? The Violi brothers' presence at a Bonanno ceremony is highly unusual.

There is no reason to guess that Zancocchio was one of the at-least-five attendees at Morena's ceremony, as Humphreys alluded to this in his article yesterday, even naming Zancocchio. gohnjotti also mentioned Zanoccchio yesterday as a result of reading Humphreys's article. (Humphreys's older November 2017 article regarding Project OTremens indicated there was someone present at the ceremony with first name "John.")

So if Domenico Violi didn't get made into the Buffalo Family till January 2015, as he stated, what was his status before then? when Sal Montagna was dealing with him prior to being murdered in November 2011? Was Montagna dealing with a Buffalo Family associate or a Bonanno Family associate/member? And if yes to the former, why was a Buffalo Family associate allegedly involved in the murders of high-profile Montreal Mafia members?

Unless one wants to believe Bill Bonanno's hilarious story of his own induction, I've never heard of people from another family attending a making ceremony. Capeci has said it's unheard of.

What about the joint Reina and Maranzano family ceremonies during the Castellammarese war?

[NickleCity]

NickleCity would be the first to tell you he's not objective.

Not upset with what your wrote, just want to make a clarification, probably cause I'm a little touchy about the flack I've received in the past.

I agree and disagree with that statement.

I am biased, but I believe postmodernism as opposed to modernity has identified the fact that "no one can be truly objective, and we all have biases. "In my opinion, our job is to understand these personal biases, the best we can, so we can be more objective. (Their is truth. That is where I don't buy full into postmodern epistemology full on relativism. But I can't buy modernism's assumption the human mind can be fully objective either.)

I am not talking about you but I find it interesting that a couple posters on this forum really laid into me about "objective evidence" from LE and Journalists... but now appear to be quick to dismiss journalists that have begun to publish pieces that challenge their perceptions or biases.

Let me say this: my perception or biases are built on personal experience in Buffalo. I can't take that out of the equation because it is part of me. I just have to recognize they are there. (This happens with everybody.) Also, my personal knowledge and experiences have to be part of the evidence that I take into consideration when forming an opinion.

Let me give you and example of how I should have listened to my personal experience more than the so called "objective" opinion. When I first came to these boards, I believed Joe Todaro Jr. was the boss. Over and over again I heard this from people around me. I even saw evidence to this affect--just shared that with GoneGotti in a PM. So naturally I believed Fino when he made the assertion that Falzone was just fronting for the Todaros.

But as I heard the opinion here and GBB, as I consider the lack of LE evidence and even the journalistic evidence to the contrary, I began to believe Joe was truly retired and focussing on La Nova--even though my gut was telling me otherwise.

Now my gut has been verified by LE and Journalists. Being "objective", didn't serve me well in that instance.

Here is the deal... The scope of my interest and knowledge is mostly limited to Buffalo and mafia activity that closely affects Buffalo . That will always influence my understanding. Folks like you and other posters have a breadth of knowledge I will never have. So I appreciate everything each of you write as I take it all into consideration.

Point is: My gut knowledge can be wrong.... But the so called "objective" knowledge can be wrong too. Both kinds of evidence have to be taken into consideration. But I get the problem: Folks on this board never know if someone like me is lying, like Giacomo is accused of.

Back to Buffalo... If they are as active and organized as the recent reports suggest, then those of us with the interest need to go back and find any and all articles related to possible Buffalo activity and see if their is a connection. That is my interest and niche.... My biases drive my interests, just as yours and everyone elses drive their interests. Right now most of the interests on this board are going in other directions. That is great, and that is why I think we need each to help us form a full picture of what is happening in our areas of interest. But it is, also, evidence that we all have biased interests and opinions.

Sorry if that is too off topic, and I know you didn't mean anything by that. I just know some would misunderstand what you meant by it. Again, I am probably a little touch on the subject.

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

The Violi brothers were associates of the Todaro Family because:
1. The Bonnanos killed their father/uncles. Vito & Nick Rizzuto
were in charge of the Bonnano crew & the Violi brothers were mortal
enemies of the Rizzutos.
2. In Hamilton, where the brothers grew up, their grandfather was the Todaro captain!
The brothers had to be raised by their mother and grandparents because their father
was dead.
No need to over complicate this. Loyalty, safety and blood ties dictated their affiliation.
As far as the Morena making ceremony, yes it is confusing that two families were at the
making ceremony. There is a simple, viable explanation that none of us know. The
'truth will out'.

[Lupara]

I also don't see the impossibility that Buffalo members attended a Bonanno ceremony. Not illegitimate reasons as to why have been given by others. I don't see why it should be automatically refuted. Based on the info provided so far, it happened.

Still I find it suprising that Domenico would've been made relatively late in his mob carreer. Relatives of made members are often at an advantage to be made at a younger age than those who have to make it on their own and he has been a player since the 90s or earlier.

Also, since Montagna was said to have visited a Hamilton "mob boss" he may have actually met with one of the elder Luppinos given that the Violis were supposedly not even made by then.