Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Frank]

Not to knock this topic off track but I'm reading that hammerhead Andy Petepiece's book on the Commission and it says (forgive me if this has been said before) that during the feud with the Buccellato's Stefano Magaddino had temporarily fled NY to Chicago and it was there that he was made by Anthony D'Andrea. It was picked up on an illegal bug the FBI had planted in his funeral home office in the early 1960's.

Never knew Magaddino was made in Chicago. I wonder what ended up happening after that. I mean was he active in Chicago and then did he transfer to another Family?

[johnny_scootch]

Never knew Magaddino was made in Chicago. I wonder what ended up happening after that. I mean was he active in Chicago and then did he transfer to another Family?

It seems like he was in Chicago for a short time and he may have been made as a way of protecting him from rival Buccellato's. He went back to Brooklyn but only stayed a short time before transplanting again to Buffalo.

[Confederate]

Doesn't matter what some fluff articles trying to prop up the city say. The facts are the facts. A quick search shows that the city has been hemorrhaging people for 60 years and is now over half non-White. It is one of the poorest cities in the country with 1/3 of the population living in poverty. It is also extremely crime ridden (a quick check shows it is the 15th worst in the country in terms of crime). In short Buffalo is now a 3rd world city. It is dead. Really sad to see but that is reality.
Pogo

Buffalo was a little less than 46% White 9 YEARS AGO. It is much less than that now. In addition, the crime and poverty statistics are accurate. Another City basically ruined by the Democrats and their "forced" diversity and "welfare" ideology in order to win votes. What a shame.

Granted their is still a lot of room for improvement, but the turnaround in the last 8 years has been significant. As I posted before people are moving back to the city in several downtown, near downtown, and north-side neighborhoods. West side is growing with immigrants. Southside has been much more stable than the rest of the city over the years. The Eastside is still the problem area that is seeing significant declines. I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much, but overall the region stopped the hemorrhaging and begun to bounce back:

The Buffalo News
Latest population data shows Erie County finally holding its own
Sandra Tan | Published March 22, 2018 | Updated March 23, 2018

Erie County's population held steady last year and has grown by more than 6,000 residents since 2010, according to the latest estimate released Thursday by the U.S. Census Bureau.

As of July 1, 2017, Erie County's population was estimated at 925,528 – 2,412 more than the year before.

Though the county's population has grown by less than 1 percent over the past six years, County Executive Mark Poloncarz said the census figures show that the region's long and steep population decline is finally moving back in the other direction. Both the census figures and the latest job-growth report for the region point to a healthy economy, he said.

"We would not have had that growth if the economy was weak," he said. "When you compare us to a comparable group of cities and counties in the Northeast and Midwest, we're growing and they're not."

Niagara County showed a negligible drop in population from a year ago, but a deeper loss of 2.4 percent of its population – more than 5,000 people – since 2010. Most Southern Tier counties also experienced population losses from a year ago, and longer-term losses of 3 percent to 4 percent since 2010.

The Buffalo Niagara region's estimated population in 2017 was 1,136,856 – a gain of nearly 2,000 people since 2016. It remains the 51st biggest metro area in the nation for population.

The metro area's population is almost the same as it was six years ago, with growth within Erie County offsetting population erosion in other areas.

Across the state, most counties with major upstate cities showed similar trends to Erie County, with stable population figures, or incremental population growth from a year ago and since 2010.

Poloncarz pointed to other upstate counties and to places like Milwaukee, where he said population numbers are falling. The fact that Erie County has held its own means more people have a reason to stay, he said.

"You don't have population growth if you don't have an economy that can sustain it," he said.

He added that live births have been outpacing deaths in this region, and local economic development agencies and businesses have reported hiring millennials from outside the area to fill job vacancies. Prior influxes of refugees and immigrants, particularly on Buffalo's West Side, have also helped, he said, though the number of new refugees coming into the area has dropped off.

The small nudge in population growth in Erie County doesn't represent a dramatic population shift, but Poloncarz said the region has to crawl before it can walk.

"We've gotten past the crawling stage, and we're starting to walk again," he said.

About the racial demographics of the city, I am not sure where you got your numbers. Here is what the US Census Bureau reports: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/ ... /PST040217

Same as you, 2010. In fact your chart had the White population at 44%. lol The poverty level and crime levels are the same. It's not like what you posted is different from what Pogo and I stated.
@Willychichi
Storm Front is okay. I actually found out about this Site from a guy on Storm Front when they were talking about the Mafia. It was highly recommended (no, it wasn't Pogo).

[willychichi]

@Willychichi
Storm Front is okay. I actually found out about this Site from a guy on Storm Front when they were talking about the Mafia. It was highly recommended (no, it wasn't Pogo).

You and Pogo are partners in crime

[NickleCity]

Same as you, 2010. In fact your chart had the White population at 44%. lol The poverty level and crime levels are the same. It's not like what you posted is different from what Pogo and I stated.
@Willychichi
Storm Front is okay. I actually found out about this Site from a guy on Storm Front when they were talking about the Mafia. It was highly recommended (no, it wasn't Pogo).

White alone percent is 48.1 on that chart...

The 44 percent includes Hispanics with ancestry from Spain who consider themselves white European.

Isn't this similar to the prejudice the Sicilians immigrants experienced having more of a brown skin tone... Should those with Sicilian ancestry be removed when figuring white percentage too?

And I believe the most recent article I posted is different... But I get it. The article I referenced uses Erie County stats instead and talks about the Metropolitan not just Buffalo....

You point to the 44% stat to make your case about Buffalo's, I point to the 48.1% stat to make my case.

This just goes to prove my point...

Everyone has a bias and focuses on the articles and stats that prove their point. Those who don't believe Buffalo is viable focus on those articles ... those who do believe Buffalo is independent and organized (maybe not large) focus on articles that suggest that they are. And if this is the case, even journalists and LE gloss over some evidence in favor of the evidence that proves their point of view.

I question Coppola for reasons outlined earlier... I think he focused on some evidence and glossed over other evidence to make his case Buffalo had not structure, no leadership, and no power in '97. I think he was wrong.

Here is another example: Edwards was lifted up as an real expert on Ontario as indicated on the Musitano Hit thread on GBB and people couldn't wait to get his take on what had taken place.

[Pogo The Clown]

Very highly unlikely that 4% of the Buffalo population is of full White Spaniard ancestry. Regardless census stats are dubious to begin with since they either don't count or severely undercount the massive illegal immigrant population (who are virtually all non-White). Besides those numbers are almost 10 years old. I wouldn't be surprised if Whites are currently less than 40% of the Buffalo population.


Pogo

[Confederate]

Same as you, 2010. In fact your chart had the White population at 44%. lol The poverty level and crime levels are the same. It's not like what you posted is different from what Pogo and I stated.
@Willychichi
Storm Front is okay. I actually found out about this Site from a guy on Storm Front when they were talking about the Mafia. It was highly recommended (no, it wasn't Pogo).

White alone percent is 48.1 on that chart...

The 44 percent includes Hispanics with ancestry from Spain who consider themselves white European.

Isn't this similar to the prejudice the Sicilians immigrants experienced having more of a brown skin tone... Should those with Sicilian ancestry be removed when figuring white percentage too?

And I believe the most recent article I posted is different... But I get it. The article I referenced uses Erie County stats instead and talks about the Metropolitan not just Buffalo....

You point to the 44% stat to make your case about Buffalo's, I point to the 48.1% stat to make my case.

This just goes to prove my point...

Everyone has a bias and focuses on the articles and stats that prove their point. Those who don't believe Buffalo is viable focus on those articles ... those who do believe Buffalo is independent and organized (maybe not large) focus on articles that suggest that they are. And if this is the case, even journalists and LE gloss over some evidence in favor of the evidence that proves their point of view.

I question Coppola for reasons outlined earlier... I think he focused on some evidence and glossed over other evidence to make his case Buffalo had not structure, no leadership, and no power in '97. I think he was wrong.

Here is another example: Edwards was lifted up as an real expert on Ontario as indicated on the Musitano Hit thread on GBB and people couldn't wait to get his take on what had taken place.

I'm not bias against Buffalo at all and I'm sure neither is Pogo. We were just quoting FACTS from 2010. Your chart from 2010 says "White Alone" 44.6% and that was 9 years ago (another month and a half to go). It's far less than that now. The poverty and crime statistics are current. I'm not saying Buffalo is the worst city in America, I'm just qouting the facts and White people are not moving to Buffalo, they are moving OUT of Buffalo to the suburbs or some other destination.
Also, the Buffalo Mafia Family is dead as a functioning Organization according to the Feds and that's all that matters to me because they know way more than you, me and everybody else on this Forum. Buffalo is no different than other Cities that have a few made guys left over doing some things on their own (Kansas City, St. Louis, Los Angeles, etc.).

[Confederate]

Very highly unlikely that 4% of the Buffalo population is of full White Spaniard ancestry. Regardless census stats are dubious to begin with since they either don't count or severely undercount the massive illegal immigrant population (who are virtually all non-White). Besides those numbers are almost 10 years old. I wouldn't be surprised if Whites are currently less than 40% of the Buffalo population.


Pogo

That ALSO is a very good point. The illegal immigrants are way undercounted and 98% of them are non White. So, the 44.5% percentage from 9 years ago was probably less at that time and it is much less now. That's why the poverty level and crime statistics are relatively high. It goes hand in hand.

[B.]

Never knew Magaddino was made in Chicago. I wonder what ended up happening after that. I mean was he active in Chicago and then did he transfer to another Family?

It seems like he was in Chicago for a short time and he may have been made as a way of protecting him from rival Buccellato's. He went back to Brooklyn but only stayed a short time before transplanting again to Buffalo.

Valachi claimed that the books were closed, at least in NYC, for a long time before they were opened during the Castellammare War. I can't recall the amount of time he said, but it was something like 20+ years. This seems inaccurate based on other info, but it's possible the books were closed for at least some amount of time in the 1910s and/or 1920s and that members went to other cities to be made. Just one possibility, re: Magaddino's Chicago induction.

[Wiseguy]

40 members in Buffalo!!??!
That would make them the 6th
largest family in the country.
Bigger than Patriarca, Philly,
DeCavs & Chicago. It doesn't
even sound right saying it.
Not a chance.

Philadelphia has about 50 members or close to it. The DeCavalcantes have about 40 or so.

[Pogo The Clown]

I believe he is refering to the active members.


Pogo

[Frank]

Never knew Magaddino was made in Chicago. I wonder what ended up happening after that. I mean was he active in Chicago and then did he transfer to another Family?

It seems like he was in Chicago for a short time and he may have been made as a way of protecting him from rival Buccellato's. He went back to Brooklyn but only stayed a short time before transplanting again to Buffalo.

Valachi claimed that the books were closed, at least in NYC, for a long time before they were opened during the Castellammare War. I can't recall the amount of time he said, but it was something like 20+ years. This seems inaccurate based on other info, but it's possible the books were closed for at least some amount of time in the 1910s and/or 1920s and that members went to other cities to be made. Just one possibility, re: Magaddino's Chicago induction.

Could have the same thing happened with Joe Profaci, seems he was in Chicago for a short amount of time.

[B.]

Never knew Magaddino was made in Chicago. I wonder what ended up happening after that. I mean was he active in Chicago and then did he transfer to another Family?

It seems like he was in Chicago for a short time and he may have been made as a way of protecting him from rival Buccellato's. He went back to Brooklyn but only stayed a short time before transplanting again to Buffalo.

Valachi claimed that the books were closed, at least in NYC, for a long time before they were opened during the Castellammare War. I can't recall the amount of time he said, but it was something like 20+ years. This seems inaccurate based on other info, but it's possible the books were closed for at least some amount of time in the 1910s and/or 1920s and that members went to other cities to be made. Just one possibility, re: Magaddino's Chicago induction.

Could have the same thing happened with Joe Profaci, seems he was in Chicago for a short amount of time.

He lived in Chicago before NYC, so he wouldn't have been sent there just to get made, but it's possible he was made in Chicago. Seems just as likely that he was made in Sicily before heading to the US, though. Jimmy Fratianno claimed he was told by Jack Dragna that he (Dragna) was made in 1914, which is the same year Dragna returned to the US from Sicily. I've wondered if a number of these younger guys who had connections on both sides of the water were made before getting on the boat to give them stature in the US.

[Frank]

Ok so it's possible but more likely that he was made in Sicily. I know this was a different day and age of LCN., so it must've been different back then as to guys being made in Sicily and there recognition in the US. Like I believe you have mentioned they were more like one organization back in that time period. A guy could be made in Sicily and come to America as a soldier, and then start his own family. I wonder if a boss like Profaci had to send tribute to the boss that made him in Sicily. Or they just made these guys and sent them to America and they just we're on there own basically. Also I was surprised Magaddino was made in Chicago not only that fact but I thought he was probably made in Sicily.

[Frank]

Also not to get off subject but I am lol since we are talking that time period. Johnny Torrio, does anyone know if he was made