Mob Talk Sitdown 23

[Angelo Santino]

Merlino omits the recording in which he told Rubeo, “I says, and then try to get, maybe get the doctors, whatever the guy, his piece and they can start by writing, they ain’t write in a while” (GX 262B)

I was involved in similar discussions back when I was in that business, the same type of dialogue... It was sold as a way for doctors to legally make money off of the scripts they write. It's illegal for doctors to benefit financially off of the medications that they prescribe. So these companies were created to serve as "trust fund" shell companies that could be invested into and in return that money was invested into the transdermal and opioid dispensary companies which in turn would be reimbursed by the insurance company. Meaning the doctor and shell company salespeople all received commission based on how many scripts the MD wrote. It wasn't sold as illegal, if it was I would have never engaged. These companies had websites, legal contracts, physician and company attorneys were involved in major negotiations.

I'm not arguing Merlino's innocence, but coming from someone familiar with this industry he wasn't the only one burned, doctors loss their licenses to practice, attorneys were fined, salespeople were arrested. From the ground level everyone was surprised, it was completely unexpected. And since it doesn't allege that Merlino presided over this scam but merely got involved, maybe he wasn't sure it was a scam. Everyone I knew never suspected.

In terms of some of his other quotes. Medicals Sales works like most other sales, by advertising and by word of mouth. Doctors are flooded with calls for new products so if you know someone who knows an MD the chances of getting a 5 minute 'in' with them increases. From there it was as a simple as "here's a legal way for you to make money, here's the info, show it to your attorneys." Salesmen were clocking 15-30,000 per mouth getting these deals arranged. And as long as the doctor was writing scripts, it was like receiving royalties each month. One salesman made as much as 35-45,000 per month. Great money, sucks the service being sold was illegal. But in this atmosphere sold as legal, it wasn't uncommon for salesmen and managers to talk in these terms: "We gotta get this guy writing again" was a way of saying "go meet your client and see if there's any issue." Since these trust funds required everyone to contribute a certain amount, to fall below a certain amount and the doctor would be removed to a smaller trust bracket.

[Ozgoz]

Fucking hell. “Only in America.” You guys love your meds over there. Although in England we’re doing a good job catching up.

[newera_212]

Merlino omits the recording in which he told Rubeo, “I says, and then try to get, maybe get the doctors, whatever the guy, his piece and they can start by writing, they ain’t write in a while” (GX 262B)

I was involved in similar discussions back when I was in that business, the same type of dialogue... It was sold as a way for doctors to legally make money off of the scripts they write. It's illegal for doctors to benefit financially off of the medications that they prescribe. So these companies were created to serve as "trust fund" shell companies that could be invested into and in return that money was invested into the transdermal and opioid dispensary companies which in turn would be reimbursed by the insurance company. Meaning the doctor and shell company salespeople all received commission based on how many scripts the MD wrote. It wasn't sold as illegal, if it was I would have never engaged. These companies had websites, legal contracts, physician and company attorneys were involved in major negotiations.

I'm not arguing Merlino's innocence, but coming from someone familiar with this industry he wasn't the only one burned, doctors loss their licenses to practice, attorneys were fined, salespeople were arrested. From the ground level everyone was surprised, it was completely unexpected. And since it doesn't allege that Merlino presided over this scam but merely got involved, maybe he wasn't sure it was a scam. Everyone I knew never suspected.

In terms of some of his other quotes. Medicals Sales works like most other sales, by advertising and by word of mouth. Doctors are flooded with calls for new products so if you know someone who knows an MD the chances of getting a 5 minute 'in' with them increases. From there it was as a simple as "here's a legal way for you to make money, here's the info, show it to your attorneys." Salesmen were clocking 15-30,000 per mouth getting these deals arranged. And as long as the doctor was writing scripts, it was like receiving royalties each month. One salesman made as much as 35-45,000 per month. Great money, sucks the service being sold was illegal. But in this atmosphere sold as legal, it wasn't uncommon for salesmen and managers to talk in these terms: "We gotta get this guy writing again" was a way of saying "go meet your client and see if there's any issue." Since these trust funds required everyone to contribute a certain amount, to fall below a certain amount and the doctor would be removed to a smaller trust bracket.

jesus..sounds like a good hustle. good info man. i agree there is a possibility that merlino thought what he was doing was totally legit, seems like he was out of his element here

[Snakes]

Not sure if it's been reported on the board or not but I just saw that Salvatore Sparacio finally kicked the bucket in September.

[Pogo The Clown]

All he ever did was book.


Pogo

[Ivan]

Not sure if it's been reported on the board or not but I just saw that Salvatore Sparacio finally kicked the bucket in September.

Thanks for the info. Where'd you hear this?

[Snakes]

Just saw it on the BOP site.

[willychichi]

Just saw it on the BOP site.

Nice find Snakes

[Cheech]

IMO Joey boss

[Fughedaboutit]

IMO Joey boss

I agree, not sure why there is a huge dispute.

[Angelo Santino]

IMO Joey boss

I agree, not sure why there is a huge dispute.

No huge dispute whatsoever.

1 Stroccos and I are pals. If the above seemed heated it wasn't, there's a mutual respect and we can disagree amicably.

2 The evidence is there that Joey Merlino is the boss. If I made a chart on 2018 he'd be at the very top, there's no getting around that. But for all the reasons I explained in prior posts I hold a conservative line in terms of what is considered common knowledge. I'm unmoved from what I posted above (and if you rewatch all of GA's statements in MTS I'm not saying anything that far off from him, he is just subdued about it and lets Dave fuck on.)

As far as the pharmaceutical shit goes, that may have sounded like I was channeling my inner Dan by arguing Merlino "got railroaded." I wasn't. But if people can argue the honorable traits in someone who only beats up deadbeats as opposed to killing, then Merlino's involvement in shady insurance fraud as opposed to robbing armored trucks should be viewed in the same way. From our civilian perspective, crimes are crimes, black and white. For them it's considered white collar. So when Joey say's he's innocent it's best to view what he means from his perspective rather than ours. But in the court of law, it's black and white, which is a good thing.

[B.]

Virtually everyone except for a couple of people were convinced that Ligambi was the official boss until the big Philly indictment came down and it became clear that Merlino was still the boss as of 2011. Yet it doesn't seem to have been a big mystery in South Philadelphia and North Jersey that Merlino was still the boss. I'm not sure what the controversy is about now -- that he has stepped down since 2011?

There has been a lot of different speculation from virtually all angles since the Philly indictment, but it's important to remember that in the mid-2000s and up until the indictment there was an equal amount of speculation that was either wrong or is still unproven, a lot of it coming from reputable sources like Anastasia. We have journalists the last few years mentioning that "so-and-so is the underboss, so-and-so is the head of this faction, this is the ruling panel, so-and-so is the street boss, these guys are retired", but it was the exact same in the 2000s, just with different names. The common belief among journalists (even Anastasia) was that Ligambi was official boss and that there was a separate Merlino faction and Ligambi faction who weren't completely in sync. We heard different names thrown in the ring for different positions -- both Gaeton Lucibello and Lancelotti were mentioned as being consigliere at different points, for example. The last we heard about Lancelotti in a Mob Talk episode was that he was a soldier, then it came out in the indictment that he had been a captain the entire time. It's possible some of these guys did hold certain positions temporarily and that tensions existed, but we know some of the info was either wrong or at least not completely right. The thing to remember is that tensions build and die down and certain members go up and down in stock, but that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on the bigger picture.

On another note, I was thinking Merlino had proposed three members that Ligambi turned down, but looking at what Cheech posted it was actually five. I can only guess that some of these may have been guys who did time with Merlino and weren't otherwise connected to a family. Ligambi had no problem inducting associates active in Philly, South Jersey, and North Jersey who he wasn't personally close to, so it's hard to believe that Merlino discovered and proposed 5 guys from that area who were completely unfamiliar to the rest of the family. I can only imagine Merlino had found a "Ralph DeLeo" or two in prison, ala Persico. He seems to be a magnet for sycophants and it's easy to imagine he had a lot of hangers-on around him during his long bid.

[B.]

What actually came out of the indictment was that it wasn't the Ligambi faction vs. the Merlino faction, but the Merlino/Ligambi faction against the Scarfo faction, which in the mid-2000s would have been dismissed as ridiculous by virtually everyone who was speculating. In fact, it was downplayed by everyone when it came out in the Perna indictment that Scarfo Jr. had been demoted as capodecina because of drama related to him trying to take over Philly. There had been a newspaper report talking about Scarfo Jr. making some kind of move, but other than that we were in the dark and thought Scarfo's demotion was purely because of media hype.

Yet it came out that the Lucchese family still apparently recognized Scarfo Sr. as the official boss of Philly, that Scarfo Jr. had tried to recruit made members/associates of the Philly family, had successfully recruited Joe Grande who was in a potential life-or-death beef with Joe Pungitore over it, and possibly inducted former Philly associate Salvatore Piccolo into the Luccheses or at least put him on record (not sure what Persiano's history is pre-Lucchese). Ligambi put in a beef that Scarfo (and presumably some of his associates) still belonged to Philadelphia, but John Gambino told Stefanelli he couldn't help them with it, which indicates that the Gambinos either didn't want to get involved or may have even seen the validity of the Luccheses' stance.

As for the speculation about Merlino and Ligambi having different factions, it's entirely possible there was real tension between them. Throughout the entire history of any mob family you will read about tension, even between allies and relatives in the same organization. It's a constant reality in these organizations. A lot of this stemmed from some kind of documented conversation where Ligambi told Borgesi that Merlino was "a cancer". This may have just been a casual comment between an uncle an nephew about Merlino being a magnet for LE, the media, etc. I wouldn't take it as some kind of dramatic movie vignette where Ligambi is plotting against Merlino. Have you never talked shit about your boss? Or for that matter, your best friends? God knows I have, even when I love them. People piss each other off, even people who are friends, allies, etc.

[Fughedaboutit]

IMO Joey boss

I agree, not sure why there is a huge dispute.

No huge dispute whatsoever.

1 Stroccos and I are pals. If the above seemed heated it wasn't, there's a mutual respect and we can disagree amicably.

2 The evidence is there that Joey Merlino is the boss. If I made a chart on 2018 he'd be at the very top, there's no getting around that. But for all the reasons I explained in prior posts I hold a conservative line in terms of what is considered common knowledge. I'm unmoved from what I posted above (and if you rewatch all of GA's statements in MTS I'm not saying anything that far off from him, he is just subdued about it and lets Dave fuck on.)

As far as the pharmaceutical shit goes, that may have sounded like I was channeling my inner Dan by arguing Merlino "got railroaded." I wasn't. But if people can argue the honorable traits in someone who only beats up deadbeats as opposed to killing, then Merlino's involvement in shady insurance fraud as opposed to robbing armored trucks should be viewed in the same way. From our civilian perspective, crimes are crimes, black and white. For them it's considered white collar. So when Joey say's he's innocent it's best to view what he means from his perspective rather than ours. But in the court of law, it's black and white, which is a good thing.

Had nothing to do with the temperature of the debate, but why a few posters are still casting doubt when there is plenty of evidence Merlino is the boss.

[Angelo Santino]

I'm the ONLY one casting doubt... on certain aspects of the narrative. But as it stands, he's boss, no argument.