Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Discuss all mafia families in the U.S., Canada, Italy, and everywhere else in the world.

Moderator: Capos

Post Reply
User avatar
Wiseguy
Filthy Few
Posts: 9569
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:12 am

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by Wiseguy »

NickleCity wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:59 pmIs it nonsense that I recognize more than one type of knowledge about a subect for example imperical and a priori. There is more than one type of reasoning for example inductive versus deductive. I suggest a quick study of epistemology—the study of the theories of knowledge, the types of knowledge and theories on how we know before you make an accusation that someone is nonsensical. I find it is better to use several types of reasoning and knowledge collection. Your emphasis on empirical/credentialed expert only knowledge may create defecits in your overall understanding. You should also bear in mind that this type of thinking is heavily conditioned about a modern understanding of the world and knowledge. Postmodern thinkers are coming to the forefront today as they point out the blind spots in modernism. That being said these thinkers must not react to strongly against modernism or the pendulum will swing
too far the other way and they will not recognize their own blind spots in knowledge and understanding.

So again please don’t accuse my way of thinking as nonsense. I like to balance the types of knowledge and reasoning I use to arrive at an opinion. If I used only credentialed experts I’d be right there with Sonny, you and others. I make no excuse for the fact that I listen to what some on this forum demean as “street talk.” However, I weigh this with the opinion experts and my knowledge and relationships with those to whom I speak as I consider the veracity of what is being said. I make no excuse that I use dudctive reasoning along side inductive. Just because I do not employ your method exclusively does not make mine nonsense! In my humble opinion their strength and weekness to every method of knowing.

Is it nonsense that the weight I put on the the things I’ve heard from people I know and the amount of corroboration from different people surpassed your so called experts. Well, it could be... and regularly questioned the weight I applied — I thank forums like this and users like you who constantly challenged me. There were points I had serious doubts Buffalo was active.

However, it is possible you have not put enough weight on these other types of evidences. Who knows? Time will tell. Right now it appears the experts (Edwards & Canadian LE) are catching up to the street talk am hearing.
What other type of evidence are you talking about? Rooster's babbling over on GBB? After more than 12 years on these forums I can tell you when anecdotal info conflicts with official info and general trends, the anecdotal info has been proven wrong pretty much every time.
About emperical evidence you said the last Buffalo Mob case was 1996 — Well I disagree it was November 2018. I’d say several Canadian reporters and Dept. Justice (Eastern District of NY or is it Southern —can’t remember) disagree too as they name members of the Todaro Crime Family as part of the big case and arrests.
Except that was largely a Canadian bust with some Buffalo members involved. So how much the case is attributable to Buffalo is questionable.

LIUNA Local 210 was the family's power base for years and it being put under oversight was incomparably more significant. In fact, that was the turning point where the feds changed their view of the Buffalo LCN.
As far as the veracity of Herbeck saying the Mob is all but dead in WNY. I don’t weigh him very high. Why? He misrepresented Ron Fino. Being a closed forum I will say we have recently PM’d and he definitely believes Buffalo is active. He hasn’t changed his position since he wrote the Buffalo News in 2012 after thei article about him being the inside guy. Don’t believe I’ve ones him? Do a google search and you will find a video of him indicating Buffalo is active and showing his continuity of thought on the topic — this video interview takes place after the March Herbeck piece. Herbeck misrepresenting Ron... if he will do that, he could misrepresent the FBI field office in Buffalo.
I think you're reaching here. And even if Herbeck wrote the whole article misrepresenting people (a rather strange assertion), the opinion of the FBI about the Buffalo mob was already known anyway. In other words, the article told us what we (well at least some of us) already knew.
It is interesting how Edwards put it on his blog: The Buffalo Mob is not dead, despite recent media reports. What media report do you think he is referencing? Money is on the Herbeck piece. Sounds like a shot over the bow to me...
When he says "the Buffalo Mob," to what is he referring? Some members and associates still active in crime? An organization with a functioning hierarchy of an administration, captains, and soldiers? Who is on this hierarchy presently?
All roads lead to New York.
User avatar
SonnyBlackstein
Filthy Few
Posts: 7544
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:21 am

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by SonnyBlackstein »

If nothing else Canada continues to be a seriously interesting LCN locale.
Don't give me your f***ing Manson lamps.
CabriniGreen
Full Patched
Posts: 3154
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:09 am

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by CabriniGreen »

@Sonny

+1

That's what's weird to me..... like....guys dont even want to DISCUSS it?

What are we supposed to talk about? And I mean no disrespect to anyone, but mobsters addresses? Sorry, I'm not a cop, I got no interest in that.....

@pogo

You know when I posted in the Violi thread you threw me a zinger like, " The 80s called".... I didnt even respond.
Didnt take it that personal....

And guys, I go back to that article-report by Anna Sergi. She said some similar things. Buffalo is active, described it as a " crime family that's no longer LCN"....

I asked what she could have meant by it...... To me it sounded like Ndrangheta families.

Then my brain goes to the Capeci article, with Semplice and the Toronto based- by way of Italy - crime family that apparently is associated with Gambino people.

Then there was the Violi, Morena induction tapes..


What all this says to me is the Structure of the mob in Canada is a little different than in the USA. How is it different?

Well if we cant even discuss without it turning into this Buffalo thing, we might as well stop posting and just wait for the indictments..

Wiseguy, I think I even said to you, I DONT EVEN LIKE MENTIONING BUFFALO, because its inevitable this is what it turns into.... I was going to focus on the Violis....


Why, instead of being so dismissive, why arnt people asking questions like, exactly WHO is Masimigliano Carfano? And if you know, POST THAT!!!

I mean I'm sorry wiseguy, but this is AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE more fuckin interesting than some fuckin typical gambling bust. I find as much interest in that as you probably find in a typical drug bust....
CabriniGreen
Full Patched
Posts: 3154
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:09 am

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by CabriniGreen »

I'm not saying I'm 100% on board with Buffalo being a thing, but I mean we can get some kinda consensus without it turning into this beef....

I said before mobsters could have absorbed, and now control what's left in Buffalo, like the action, bets/loans. And some guys were like, " No one controls Buffalo!!", like I said they pick the fuckin Mayor and City council. It's like fuckin take it easy....

And we see there is some gambling, like whatever, the same traditional shit, but guys didnt even want to acknowledge the POSSIBILITY? I think it was pogo who said it's a dead city, there NOTHING THERE, and it's like come on now...
User avatar
Confederate
Full Patched
Posts: 3404
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:39 am
Location: Pensacola Beach & Jacksonville, FL

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by Confederate »

You can argue there is a functioning Buffalo Family with a Hierarchy and is now one of the 11 Families still standing for the next 100 pages but it doesn't change the fact the Feds (who know way more than any of us assholes on this Forum) said Buffalo is not a functioning Family anymore. That's all I need to know. I don't care if there are 8 or 10 leftover guys taking bets on football games. That same thing happens in many other Cities where there is not a functioning LCN Family anymore. I mean, unless we all want to move to Buttfuckalo (Buffalo) and live there for 6 months to see if the Feds are wrong, I accept their verdict.
" Everything Woke turns to shit".
User avatar
Lupara
Full Patched
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:24 pm

Re: RE: Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by Lupara »


SonnyBlackstein wrote:@Pogo and Wisgeuy.

I think your attacks on johnny Scootch are unwarranted.

The guy is citing legitimate sources for his beliefs. IE a former LE officer who was undercover in the area and a renowned journalist, for his opinions.

He's entitled to legitimately believe there's an operational structure in buffalo involved, basis these sources. The fact we all disagree doesn't give you two the position to ridicule his beliefs as if they were outlandish or unjustified. He's got an opinion, and he can substantiate it.

Isnt that the basis of a good discussion on a forum?
Agreed. Almost always hard to question Wiseguy's and Pogo's solid arguments/facts but try not to squash any potentially interesting discussion. Also, I can hardly remember this poster on the RD if at all, but so far the impression I got here is that of a decent poster. Try not to scare everyone with a different viewpoint away of this board yeah? He sure as hell is not a troll that much I do know.

I find it a little ironic that Wiseguy, after all the bashing of Scott and others who defended Detroit's viability, is now suggesting the family may still be active even though the status of this family is (and always was) comparable to Buffalo. The latest indictment of 'members of the Todaro crime family' is a much stronger evidence of activity than we got from Detroit in recent years. When was the last time 'members of the Detroit crime family' were indicted? Over a decade ago or more?
Last edited by Lupara on Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:57 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Confederate
Full Patched
Posts: 3404
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:39 am
Location: Pensacola Beach & Jacksonville, FL

Re: RE: Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by Confederate »

Lupara wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:57 am
SonnyBlackstein wrote:@Pogo and Wisgeuy.

I think your attacks on johnny Scootch are unwarranted.

The guy is citing legitimate sources for his beliefs. IE a former LE officer who was undercover in the area and a renowned journalist, for his opinions.

He's entitled to legitimately believe there's an operational structure in buffalo involved, basis these sources. The fact we all disagree doesn't give you two the position to ridicule his beliefs as if they were outlandish or unjustified. He's got an opinion, and he can substantiate it.

Isnt that the basis of a good discussion on a forum?
Agreed. Almost always hard to question Wiseguy's and Pogo's solid arguments/facts but try not to squash any potentially interesting discussion. Also, I can hardly remember this on the RD if remembering at all, but so far the impression I got here is that of a decent poster. Try not to scare everyone with a different viewpoint of this board yeah? He sure as hell is not a troll that much I do know.

I find it a little ironic that Wiseguy, after all the bashing of Scott and others who defended Detroit's viability, is now suggesting the family may still be active even though the status of this family is (and always was) comparable to Buffalo. The latest indictment of 'members of the Todaro crime family' is a much stronger evidence of activity than we got from Detroit in recent years. When was the last time 'members of the Detroit crime family' were indicted? Over a decade ago or more?
I don't believe Wiseguy ever said the Detroit Family was defunct to my recollection. He said The Feds stated that Detroit was one of the 10 remaining Families. The issue with Scott was the NUMBER of made men in the Detroit Family which was a lot different than the estimate by the Feds. The Feds stated that Buffalo was no longer a functioning LCN Family several years ago. Two completely seperate issues.
" Everything Woke turns to shit".
Laurentian
Sergeant Of Arms
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:44 am
Location: Québec, Canada.

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by Laurentian »

A suspect in the murder of Angelo Musitano, in May 2017, has been arrested by Hamilton Police, as well in the case of Mila Barberi, and in the attempted murder of Saverio Serrano. A press conference will be held later in the day at 11:00 o'clock, am.
Laurentian
Sergeant Of Arms
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:44 am
Location: Québec, Canada.

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by Laurentian »

Laurentian wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:46 am A suspect in the murder of Angelo Musitano, in May 2017, has been arrested by Hamilton Police, as well in the case of Mila Barberi, and in the attempted murder of Saverio Serrano. A press conference will be held later in the day at 11:00 o'clock, am.
From Twitter:
Hamilton Police, @YRP, @RCMPONT will provide an update on an arrest in the Musitano and Barberi homicides at 11:00 a.m. today at Central Station in #HamOnt
User avatar
SILENT PARTNERZ
Full Patched
Posts: 1211
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:14 am

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by SILENT PARTNERZ »

Laurentian wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:46 am A suspect in the murder of Angelo Musitano, in May 2017, has been arrested by Hamilton Police, as well in the case of Mila Barberi, and in the attempted murder of Saverio Serrano. A press conference will be held later in the day at 11:00 o'clock, am.
Now that's news!
Laurentian, please post a link when it comes up.
Hopefully this case will shed light on the goings
on up there. It IS an very interesting area as
Sonny said. Too many bodies dropping for there
to be no OC there.
'three can keep a secret, if two are dead'
Laurentian
Sergeant Of Arms
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:44 am
Location: Québec, Canada.

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by Laurentian »

SILENT PARTNERZ wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:40 am
Laurentian wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:46 am A suspect in the murder of Angelo Musitano, in May 2017, has been arrested by Hamilton Police, as well in the case of Mila Barberi, and in the attempted murder of Saverio Serrano. A press conference will be held later in the day at 11:00 o'clock, am.
Now that's news!
Laurentian, please post a link when it comes up.
Hopefully this case will shed light on the goings
on up there. It IS an very interesting area as
Sonny said. Too many bodies dropping for there
to be no OC there.
Silent, if you look above my post, I have made a copy-paste of the tweet from the Hamilton Police Twitter account.
Laurentian
Sergeant Of Arms
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:44 am
Location: Québec, Canada.

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by Laurentian »

"Ontario police make arrest in high-profile gangland murders, including death of Hamilton mobster Angelo Musitano"

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/on ... nd-murders
antimafia
Full Patched
Posts: 2404
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:45 pm

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by antimafia »

^^^^
Police make arrest in mobster Musitano murder

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/8913 ... no-murder/
antimafia
Full Patched
Posts: 2404
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:45 pm

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by antimafia »

^^^^
CBC News will allow you to watch this morning's 11:00 am EST press conference live. I'll try to provide one or more links, especially one that will permit those of you outside Canada to watch.

"Hamilton police to announce arrest in murders of mobster Angelo Musitano, Toronto woman"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton ... -1.4831119.
User avatar
Lupara
Full Patched
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:24 pm

Re: Italy: Toronto on brink of mob war

Post by Lupara »

They probably had to make this move due to the info leaked to the public?
Post Reply