Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

[CabriniGreen]

@willychichi

Now I feel like we are getting somewhere...

The thing about those Buffalo guys..... they dont show up on any Bonnano charts.... and neither do the Violis....
I looked at the list on this very forum. Of all the guys made recently, unless I misread, only ONE was from Canada, the guy in the indictment described as an agent, or whatever, Morena.


I asked why would Hamilton based mobsters be attractive to the Bonnano family, I suspected thier narcotics connections. Zummo was dealing coke. Calabrians have access to coke. The Violis operate in a territory that was traditionally a Calabrian stronghold.
Do they belong more to Calabrian OC, or LCN. This to me is a really basic ass question, like... I dont know....

@wiseguy


Ya know, what threw me is the language " crime family but not lcn..."..


It just sounded like an ndrine....

Also, again... my question was about the Violis mainly...

Are they a Calabrian ndrine, ( that absorbed what was left in Buffalo.. ) or a Bonanno crew, and if not a crew themselves, who are they under.
( they were doing a little too much to not have a crew...)


If they arnt accounted for on any Bonnano chart we had since Massino rebuilt the the family ( the 150 guy, 15 capo numbers) then that means they were made what, recently?

Antimafia, some of the other Canadian researchers probably have, but I personally haven't seen too many
Charts of the Calabrian organizations. I know who the bosses are in Toronto, but I've never SEEN a Coluccio chart, or a Tavernese chart.

The chart Nickel posted might be one of the few I've seen. My question is do we put the former Buffalo guys in the Luppino chart. Again, are they part of an ndrine?
Or do they just do business with it....Impossible? That's a strong word to me, ...... we got bogged down by the Todaro thing, but fuck that... what do you think of the chart? Is it an ndrine doing business with LCN, or a LCN crew?
My point is that a connection to Calabrian OC would be consistent with their criminal activities. So to me they are either an ndrine, or the Bonnanos recruited them FOR their connections to Calabrian OC. Unless you think the Bonnanos supply their narcotics.....



I have the same question with Violis that I have with say, a Rafaelle Valenti. Where do his orders come from, the five families, or Calabrian OC.

Remember, like I pointed out before.... I like you watched the whole Buffalo debate and SUGGESTED, maybe looking into the Violis makes more sense.

Again, no ones trying to prove Buffalo is active ( which is kinda what I'm getting from you guys..), I'm trying to ascertain the current power structure.



Like good lord, I'm not talking about a phantom syndicate, I'm talking about, what, do you call this thing, in the indictment, that we are discussing. An ndrine or an lcn crew, how the fuck is this question so complicated?

You could just say, ya know, I think they are a Bonanno crew. They are likely not a Buffalo crew, as there is no Buffalo crime family active....

If that, whatever you wanna call it, isnt an ndrine (I'm not, yet convinced they arnt, strongest evidence against it is the fact th hey were at a making ceremony, it's just in today's landscape, I dont know for sure if that's a rubber stamp on Bonnano membership....)

I get you guys point on the name coincidence, Todaro. I was wrong there.... But did you know there is a Macri/Violi/ Alvaro locale in Calabria?
(Even more interesting to me is that the Commisos became the dominant family in that ndrine after Antonio Macri was assassinated, and here they are mentioned in the indictment, on a surface level, it appears they would fall under the Commisos.....possibly...lol)
I mean that COULD be a coincidence too, I haven't been able to find anything concrete enough to substantiate. ( plus I cant read Italian..) Anyone heard of a Giorgio Violi? same with Papalia,....


Like Johnny pops gets hit, it might not be a Buffalo crew anymore, but the ndrine from what I understand is still functional. They got people in Australia. Same with the Musitanos, here look at this map...

https://sites.google.com/site/milanocro ... appe/world

Now I'm not saying this is the end all be all... but it has the Violis as an ndrine. And notice Hamilton clans like the Papalias and Musitanos are in Australia as well as Canada....

So I see Hamilton as a convergence of Calabrian contacts.

Like, this network is no phantom syndicate.....

Great discussion guys, keep it going...

[Frank]

@willychichi

Now I feel like we are getting somewhere...

The thing about those Buffalo guys..... they dont show up on any Bonnano charts.... and neither do the Violis....
I looked at the list on this very forum. Of all the guys made recently, unless I misread, only ONE was from Canada, the guy in the indictment described as an agent, or whatever, Morena.


I asked why would Hamilton based mobsters be attractive to the Bonnano family, I suspected thier narcotics connections. Zummo was dealing coke. Calabrians have access to coke. The Violis operate in a territory that was traditionally a Calabrian stronghold.
Do they belong more to Calabrian OC, or LCN. This to me is a really basic ass question, like... I dont know....

@wiseguy


Ya know, what threw me is the language " crime family but not lcn..."..


It just sounded like an ndrine....

Also, again... my question was about the Violis mainly...

Are they a Calabrian ndrine, ( that absorbed what was left in Buffalo.. ) or a Bonanno crew, and if not a crew themselves, who are they under.
( they were doing a little too much to not have a crew...)


If they arnt accounted for on any Bonnano chart we had since Massino rebuilt the the family ( the 150 guy, 15 capo numbers) then that means they were made what, recently?

Antimafia, some of the other Canadian researchers probably have, but I personally haven't seen too many
Charts of the Calabrian organizations. I know who the bosses are in Toronto, but I've never SEEN a Coluccio chart, or a Tavernese chart.

The chart Nickel posted might be one of the few I've seen. My question is do we put the former Buffalo guys in the Luppino chart. Again, are they part of an ndrine?
Or do they just do business with it....Impossible? That's a strong word to me, ...... we got bogged down by the Todaro thing, but fuck that... what do you think of the chart? Is it an ndrine doing business with LCN, or a LCN crew?
My point is that a connection to Calabrian OC would be consistent with their criminal activities. So to me they are either an ndrine, or the Bonnanos recruited them FOR their connections to Calabrian OC. Unless you think the Bonnanos supply their narcotics.....



I have the same question with Violis that I have with say, a Rafaelle Valenti. Where do his orders come from, the five families, or Calabrian OC.

Remember, like I pointed out before.... I like you watched the whole Buffalo debate and SUGGESTED, maybe looking into the Violis makes more sense.

Again, no ones trying to prove Buffalo is active ( which is kinda what I'm getting from you guys..), I'm trying to ascertain the current power structure.



Like good lord, I'm not talking about a phantom syndicate, I'm talking about, what, do you call this thing, in the indictment, that we are discussing. An ndrine or an lcn crew, how the fuck is this question so complicated?

You could just say, ya know, I think they are a Bonanno crew. They are likely not a Buffalo crew, as there is no Buffalo crime family active....

If that, whatever you wanna call it, isnt an ndrine (I'm not, yet convinced they arnt, strongest evidence against it is the fact th hey were at a making ceremony, it's just in today's landscape, I dont know for sure if that's a rubber stamp on Bonnano membership....)

I get you guys point on the name coincidence, Todaro. I was wrong there.... But did you know there is a Macri/Violi/ Alvaro locale in Calabria?
(Even more interesting to me is that the Commisos became the dominant family in that ndrine after Antonio Macri was assassinated, and here they are mentioned in the indictment, on a surface level, it appears they would fall under the Commisos.....possibly...lol)
I mean that COULD be a coincidence too, I haven't been able to find anything concrete enough to substantiate. ( plus I cant read Italian..) Anyone heard of a Giorgio Violi? same with Papalia,....


Like Johnny pops gets hit, it might not be a Buffalo crew anymore, but the ndrine from what I understand is still functional. They got people in Australia. Same with the Musitanos, here look at this map...

https://sites.google.com/site/milanocro ... appe/world

Now I'm not saying this is the end all be all... but it has the Violis as an ndrine. And notice Hamilton clans like the Papalias and Musitanos are in Australia as well as Canada....

So I see Hamilton as a convergence of Calabrian contacts.

Like, this network is no phantom syndicate.....

Great discussion guys, keep it going...

I don't think you are going to find the for sure answer to your question of what Crime Family the Violi Bros are members of. I think you are going to have to wait it out for new information. There are to many different answers to the Bros possible affiliation. I my self believe they are currently members of the Bonnano Family, but that is just my opinion.

[antimafia]

Witton Luu of Toronto died two days ago while in custody at Joyceville Institution in Kingston, Ontario. He was one of the five people for whom a Canada-wide warrant was issued last November in relation to Project OTremens; Giuseppe Violi was among those five.

No reason has been provided as to the cause of death. Luu was likely transferred to Joyceville for intake assessment to determine whether he would be classified at the minimum, medium, or maximum security level. I suspect that Joyceville was his mother institution.

Link to article:

"Inmate dies at Joyceville Institution"
https://globalnews.ca/news/4392034/inma ... stitution/

[antimafia]

^^^^
The reporter updated her article. Luu’s death may have been from a suspected drug overdose.

[JIGGS]

Also, I'm going to reserve judgment before I say that Buffalo is still a fully fledged, viable family. It could just be that there are a few guys left that are allowed to operate there - perhaps a crew's worth. It would be difficult to imagine an entire family, say 30 or more guys, operating without attracting any more attention than they have. Calling the remnants the "Todaro Family" also makes it easier to prove they are part of an enterprise, plus it sounds better in press releases and the papers.

Bingo.

Add the media element and the perception that a full fledged crime family with hundreds of members exists in Buffalo.

JIGGS

[johnny_scootch]

I don't think you are going to find the for sure answer to your question of what Crime Family the Violi Bros are members of. I think you are going to have to wait it out for new information. There are to many different answers to the Bros possible affiliation. I my self believe they are currently members of the Bonnano Family, but that is just my opinion.

Well if that info was true and they were at the making ceremony for Morena it's pretty clear where their affiliation lies.

With LCN & The Bonanno family specifically.

[Frank]

I don't think you are going to find the for sure answer to your question of what Crime Family the Violi Bros are members of. I think you are going to have to wait it out for new information. There are to many different answers to the Bros possible affiliation. I my self believe they are currently members of the Bonnano Family, but that is just my opinion.

Well if that info was true and they were at the making ceremony for Morena it's pretty clear where their affiliation lies.

With LCN & The Bonanno family specifically.

Your right buddy

[gohnjotti]

I don't think you are going to find the for sure answer to your question of what Crime Family the Violi Bros are members of. I think you are going to have to wait it out for new information. There are to many different answers to the Bros possible affiliation. I my self believe they are currently members of the Bonnano Family, but that is just my opinion.

Well if that info was true and they were at the making ceremony for Morena it's pretty clear where their affiliation lies.

With LCN & The Bonanno family specifically.

Your right buddy

Wait, do we know if they were actually at the ceremony or not? Forgive me if I’m blanking here.

[antimafia]

[snip]

Wait, do we know if they were actually at the ceremony or not? Forgive me if I’m blanking here.

Go to the top of p. 34 of this thread (http://www.theblackhand.club/forum/view ... &start=330). Go back farther for the link to the referenced article.

[CabriniGreen]

Like I been asking....

Ndrine or Regime? An interesting question... American ( Mob watchers..) side leans toward Regime, Canadian ( Mob watchers..) side seems to lean towards Ndrine.



I just wonder where does LCN begin, and where does the ndrangheta begin.....

[CabriniGreen]

Also, I think I said before, the Violis being at a Bonnano making ceremony is signifigant, but it's hard to ignore them ALSO attending a Musitano wedding swarming with calabrian heavies. ESPECIALLY considering what they were indicted for......moving smuggled contraband, narcotics and tobacco......

Were there other members of NY LCN at that wedding?

Another question fellas, if Bonanno members, who's crew would you think they are in?


( Example: At that Xmas party, which capo represented them? Or Csnada in general? And a second point, do you guys consider Montreal to be the " Canadian branch" of the Bonnanos Bronx crew?)

The theory B. had that the Luppinos might have " defected" (?) to the Bonnanos is an interesting angle as well....

Thst 2002 Bonnano chart, does it have the Violis and Luppinos as members as early as the early 90s-2000s?

[Lupara]

Also, I think I said before, the Violis being at a Bonnano making ceremony is signifigant, but it's hard to ignore them ALSO attending a Musitano wedding swarming with calabrian heavies. ESPECIALLY considering what they were indicted for......moving smuggled contraband, narcotics and tobacco......

This is obviously a bad comparison. The Musitanos are their blood family and they have longstanding ties to other Calabrians going all the way back to the old country. LCN members and ndranghetisti mingle all the time in Ontario. You can't compare an informal wedding ceremony with a formal LCN making ceremony. You're thinking too much outside of the box sometimes.

Were there other members of NY LCN at that wedding?

Members of the ndrangheta have attended Cuntrera wedding ceremonies or anniversaries and the other way around in Canada even though both are separate organizations.

[CabriniGreen]

The Musitanos are blood relations with the Violis?

[CabriniGreen]

Also, I posted something to that effect already, that the Musitanos, Papalias, Violis, that these clan/ families have ties in Canada, Australia, and Calabria, seemingly simultaneously.

Actually, I'm not sure I completely get your point.... like the Calabrians ARE at the basic level, family organizations. You are saying that the Violis being at the wedding is strictly a PLATONIC-family thing, not business? Or are you saying they are just LCN guys who attended the wedding?

And seriously, since when are weddings NOT major LCN political functions?

( Think the Bono wedding...or that one wedding Gotti attended, he was able to gage his power in the family by how many guys paid homage or showed respect..)

Again, dont take this stuff so personally, cause I'm not even convinced they AREN'T LCN, I just dont get why they dont show up on ANY Bonnano charts or anything.

@Lupara

Did you think about any of my questions? Who do you think they are under? The Bronx? It's why I asked....
Do you think the, let's just call it the Violi crew, do you think the Violis were made recently ( last 5-10 years) or earlier?

Also, do you agree with the theory B. had, that the Luppinos were Bonnanos not Maggadino?

Is Natale Luppino a made guy?
Legit questions here, no bullshit..

[Lupara]

The Musitanos are blood relations with the Violis?

Nope, I confused them with the Lupinos. Doesn't change much of what I said though.