Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

[NickleCity]

Sorry should be Oct. 2012 as date for Fino’s letter.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Giacomo?

To anti mafia, B. And Gohn: gentleman, amazing dialogue, excavation, conclusion and contribution. I can certainly say I speak for most posters here in saying a LOUD thank you! Sincerely. Great read.

[Wiseguy]

Yes, but Herbeck, also, writes that Fino didn’t think the Union was completely clean of mob influence in an article on Sept. 30, 2012 as the Capitano brothers were back in leadership. The article says:

Today, Fino maintains that the government's cleanup of the Laborers international - and of Local 210 - didn't go far enough. While admitting he has no direct information about current wrongdoing in the local, Fino said he is skeptical of the Justice Department's claims that mob influences were totally removed from Local 210 and the Laborers international.
Fino pointed out that, in the 1990s, Sam Capitano, the current business manager of Local 210, was an outspoken critic of efforts to remove mob influences from the Buffalo local.

Fino even wrote a letter that was published in October 2013 indicating the same. In the letter he cites a Buffalo News article by Bebee that suggests why the union cleanup didn’t go far enough. Then he delves into the Capitano matter as support. Finally, he writes:

Many if not most of the leaders on Western New York Mafia family have hunkered down and try to carry on an image and air of respectability. This in no way means that they do not exist and make money from illegal operations. They know that they are being watched and now operate more clandestinely.

Anyway don’t know how Fino goes from that to remnants in 3 1/2 years. Also, he was contacted in 2015 and said the same thing, even indicating the Todaros weren’t completely legit.

Here is Fino’s October letter to the Buffalo News: http://ticklethewire.com/2012/10/01/for ... fferently/

Here is the Sept. 2012 Buffalo News article: http://buffalonews.com/2012/09/30/life- ... nside-guy/

So you decided to bring the "Buffalo is still alive" crusade from GBB to this forum huh? Hopefully Rooster didn't tag along with you.

I'll be honest. I followed that entire Buffalo thread on GBB from beginning to now and what I saw was NickyfromTampa/gohnjotti show you guys a mountain of evidence that there is no longer a formally structured, active crime family in Buffalo. At least not anything to the point that the feds recognize or consider significant in terms of a traditional mob family. Yet you guys looked for every excuse to ignore or explain away all the evidence showing this, while desperately latching onto the smallest, most vague and insignicant reasons to argue there is still a viable family there. And the charge was led by a troll who claimed from the start that he got his info from his drunk cop buddies.

I have a list of every known Buffalo case for nearly the last 20 years. What they show is some individual members and/or associates here and there involved in ad-hoc crimes but not a cohesive crime family. Not ongoing, organized crime activity being directed by a viable, formally structured family. Essentially no different than remnants of families in several other cities. Nicky/gohn was absolutely correct in drawing a parallel with Tampa. The only difference is, there is more members alive in the Buffalo family but that's due to it being in the Northeast as much as anything else.

The feds had the family at 23 members in 2006. Several have died since then. A later article put them at no more than 20 at the time. As has been shown, there was an article just last year describing the family as basically defunct. Other articles over the last 15-20 years have said the same thing.

There hasn't been a truly significant case out of Buffalo since LIUNA Local 210 being put under oversight in 1996. A decade later in 2006, it was declared free of mob influence. It's been over a decade since then and, regardless of the Capitanos, there hasn't been any signs of ongoing LCN activity involving the union.

If you want to believe there is still an active family there - and it is wishful thinking - go ahead. But let's stop pretending there's any compelling evidence for that, especially compared with the evidence to the contrary.

[CabriniGreen]

I've always seen Montagna as a Tony Bananas type situation....... I always thought someone, or a FEW someone's were behind him, and they left him out to dry when they got what they wanted, the Rizzutos out the way...

[CabriniGreen]

Let me ask, What's in Hamilton? For the Bonannos to go up there?

Is it a new Canadian " command outpost-home base", or a specific operation?

What about the Musitano territory and or operations? You think that's what this is about?

Another question, can you circumvent Montreal via Buffalo if you are running narcotics? I was thinking this was the Violis, and why they were being courted by the Bonnanos. Like, I see a little mini rivalry with the Gambinos. They had direct connections to Calabria through the Ursinos, they just convicted the guy from Toronto right?

I see the Bonnanos as trying to build better contacts, what better than the sons of your once acting capo, who happen to be tied into a huge network of narcotics contacts....

On Buffalo....

I look at it as more of a territory than an actual family.... and this would be MAYBE Vioili turf? Based on the historic presence of the the Luppinos? Are any of that family still alive and or active?

[gohnjotti]

If there is any truth to the Buffalo family being officially inactive or dissolved (would need a lot more info to confirm this), it's possible the Bonannos absorbed them but I'm hesitant to believe that.

The FBI's Buffalo office, numerous federal and state agents, federal prosecutors, Ron Fino, are among the many who have said that the Buffalo Mafia is extinct. http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/19/fbi-s ... perations/

Yes, but Herbeck, also, writes that Fino didn’t think the Union was completely clean of mob influence in an article on Sept. 30, 2012 as the Capitano brothers were back in leadership. The article says:

Today, Fino maintains that the government's cleanup of the Laborers international - and of Local 210 - didn't go far enough. While admitting he has no direct information about current wrongdoing in the local, Fino said he is skeptical of the Justice Department's claims that mob influences were totally removed from Local 210 and the Laborers international.
Fino pointed out that, in the 1990s, Sam Capitano, the current business manager of Local 210, was an outspoken critic of efforts to remove mob influences from the Buffalo local.

Fino even wrote a letter that was published in October 2013 indicating the same. In the letter he cites a Buffalo News article by Bebee that suggests why the union cleanup didn’t go far enough. Then he delves into the Capitano matter as support. Finally, he writes:

Many if not most of the leaders on Western New York Mafia family have hunkered down and try to carry on an image and air of respectability. This in no way means that they do not exist and make money from illegal operations. They know that they are being watched and now operate more clandestinely.

Anyway don’t know how Fino goes from that to remnants in 3 1/2 years. Also, he was contacted in 2015 and said the same thing, even indicating the Todaros weren’t completely legit.

Here is Fino’s October letter to the Buffalo News: http://ticklethewire.com/2012/10/01/for ... fferently/

Here is the Sept. 2012 Buffalo News article: http://buffalonews.com/2012/09/30/life- ... nside-guy/

Also, union corruption continues with or without the Buffalo mob. Recent cases in Buffalo have proven there that doesn't have to be a Mafia for this to continue. In fact, allegations have continued to swirl around Local 210, but there is not even a sliver of evidence that the Buffalo mob has anything to do with it post-2006.

[Confederate]

I think you guys have made a very convincing arguement that there is no Buffalo Mafia Family anymore for all the reasons stated. There can CERTAINLY be Union White Collar Crime without a Mafia Family. LOL
Any discussion about Buffalo being one of the remaining Families should be left on that stupid GBB Board with all their hypothetical nonsense bullshit theories.

[Lupara]

I've always seen Montagna as a Tony Bananas type situation....... I always thought someone, or a FEW someone's were behind him, and they left him out to dry when they got what they wanted, the Rizzutos out the way...

But they didn't get the Rizzutos out of the way.

[Lupara]

The 23 members in 2006 would be enough for a functional, viable family. How many have exactly died since then? As I've stated in the past, Desjardins was believed to have traveled to Buffalo (and New York) shortly before his conflict with Montagna escalated. This tells me that there are still figures of importance who are active there that he consulted.

However a good case can be made that as early as '97 the family was already waning based on the murder of their Hamilton capo Papalia. At this point the Buffalo mob would still be larger than the Musitanos yet the latter felt that they were strong enough, and indeed there was no retaliation.

Now that I'm thinking about it, speculation is that the Musitanos were backed by the Rizzutos. So perhaps the murder of Papalia may have been another reason for what happened in Montreal.

[CabriniGreen]

Understand, when I say get the Rizzutos out the way, I'm talking out of their way as far as the narcotic as routes for cocaine go. Not territorial control of Montreal.

This is something I've always wondered too...

In fact I think when Vito moved on Toronto, they didnt do anything immediately, but I suspect they silently were seething...

[CabriniGreen]

That thing about Dejardins going to Buffalo is interesting.... Another compelling question...

If Buffalo is indeed Violi territory, and he met with the brothers...that would be consistent with what's been posted so far, otherwise, who would it be?....
It maybe also tracks with B's theory that Montagna sponsored them... maybe they sold him out...



Wait, New York too? Now he really looks like a Tony Bananas to me. Would NY really give the go ahead to a non Italian to hit an acting boss though?

But it's just interesting to me... has anyone ever connected the dismantling of the Rizzuto route with the attempts of NY and the sicilians to reactivate the transatlantic routes? The timing is very curious to me....

[NickleCity]

Yes, but Herbeck, also, writes that Fino didn’t think the Union was completely clean of mob influence in an article on Sept. 30, 2012 as the Capitano brothers were back in leadership. The article says:

Today, Fino maintains that the government's cleanup of the Laborers international - and of Local 210 - didn't go far enough. While admitting he has no direct information about current wrongdoing in the local, Fino said he is skeptical of the Justice Department's claims that mob influences were totally removed from Local 210 and the Laborers international.
Fino pointed out that, in the 1990s, Sam Capitano, the current business manager of Local 210, was an outspoken critic of efforts to remove mob influences from the Buffalo local.

Fino even wrote a letter that was published in October 2013 indicating the same. In the letter he cites a Buffalo News article by Bebee that suggests why the union cleanup didn’t go far enough. Then he delves into the Capitano matter as support. Finally, he writes:

Many if not most of the leaders on Western New York Mafia family have hunkered down and try to carry on an image and air of respectability. This in no way means that they do not exist and make money from illegal operations. They know that they are being watched and now operate more clandestinely.

Anyway don’t know how Fino goes from that to remnants in 3 1/2 years. Also, he was contacted in 2015 and said the same thing, even indicating the Todaros weren’t completely legit.

Here is Fino’s October letter to the Buffalo News: http://ticklethewire.com/2012/10/01/for ... fferently/

Here is the Sept. 2012 Buffalo News article: http://buffalonews.com/2012/09/30/life- ... nside-guy/

So you decided to bring the "Buffalo is still alive" crusade from GBB to this forum huh? Hopefully Rooster didn't tag along with you.

I'll be honest. I followed that entire Buffalo thread on GBB from beginning to now and what I saw was NickyfromTampa/gohnjotti show you guys a mountain of evidence that there is no longer a formally structured, active crime family in Buffalo. At least not anything to the point that the feds recognize or consider significant in terms of a traditional mob family. Yet you guys looked for every excuse to ignore or explain away all the evidence showing this, while desperately latching onto the smallest, most vague and insignicant reasons to argue there is still a viable family there. And the charge was led by a troll who claimed from the start that he got his info from his drunk cop buddies.

I have a list of every known Buffalo case for nearly the last 20 years. What they show is some individual members and/or associates here and there involved in ad-hoc crimes but not a cohesive crime family. Not ongoing, organized crime activity being directed by a viable, formally structured family. Essentially no different than remnants of families in several other cities. Nicky/gohn was absolutely correct in drawing a parallel with Tampa. The only difference is, there is more members alive in the Buffalo family but that's due to it being in the Northeast as much as anything else.

The feds had the family at 23 members in 2006. Several have died since then. A later article put them at no more than 20 at the time. As has been shown, there was an article just last year describing the family as basically defunct. Other articles over the last 15-20 years have said the same thing.

There hasn't been a truly significant case out of Buffalo since LIUNA Local 210 being put under oversight in 1996. A decade later in 2006, it was declared free of mob influence. It's been over a decade since then and, regardless of the Capitanos, there hasn't been any signs of ongoing LCN activity involving the union.

If you want to believe there is still an active family there - and it is wishful thinking - go ahead. But let's stop pretending there's any compelling evidence for that, especially compared with the evidence to the contrary.

Notice I didn’t say Buffalo is active in this comment. I just pointed out that Fino, succinctly said it was. Given what Fino wrote Herbeck, it would have nice if Herbeck highlighted his change of mind instead of just using the small quote he used.

As to Buffalo being active, you are right I have suggested it is on other forums. Rumors I heard made me think it was/is... However, you arguments and Nicky’s are good. And I question whether their is a “family.”

All I can say is something is active in WNY and the Niagara Region. Recent information substantiates (but doesn’t prove) this notion.

What it is active? Who knows... A Crime Syndicate being run by the former Buffalo Family? Violi’s running OC in the Niagara region (both Canada & US) that includes remnants of the former family and associates? One or more than one of the 5 families running crews in WNY in connection with N’drangheta in GTA? Or a Buffalo Family that has put itself back together under the radar? Who knows! Given what we’ve learned something is active... and those who live in the area already had a good suspicion something was going on.

By the way, you mention the 2006 FBI chart on the Buffalo Family. If you have a copy or know where to find it, I’d love to see it. The only thing I can find is a Niagara Falls Reporter article that references it. Not saying it doesn’t exist, I just can’t find it. Thanks!

[Slumpy]

Let me ask, What's in Hamilton? For the Bonannos to go up there?

Is it a new Canadian " command outpost-home base", or a specific operation?

What about the Musitano territory and or operations? You think that's what this is about?

Its the first major urban area before Niagara/the US border

Another question, can you circumvent Montreal via Buffalo if you are running narcotics? ?

I suppose you could, but why? The consequences for drug smuggling are much more stringent in the US than they are in Canada. Then you also need to consider that Canada is a much, much smaller market with more liberal attitudes, meaning the cost of narcotics is generally lower here. So you'd have to assume a greater risk to smuggle the drugs into a smaller market that pays less instead of just selling everything in the world's largest drug market at a premium rate.

[CabriniGreen]

No you misunderstand.....

I mean use Buffalo to get drugs into NY, not sell them in Buffalo

[SonnyBlackstein]

Rumors I heard made me think it was/is...

End of conversation.