Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

[CabriniGreen]

Another reason some of you guys should pay more attention, instead of trying to throw cold water on every discussion about this shit.

I've BEEN ( in my most exhausted voice...) trying to get people to see the INTERNATIONAL structure of the Italian run drug trade. That it is a VERY powerful "lobby" in LCN politics. And that we need to map that structure.

I've been saying the Rizzutos were powerful for narcotics CONNECTIONS, that have been superseded by the Calabrians.

Essentially, guys like the Violi brothers, through thier connections, and possibly through controlling smuggling routes through Buffalo, could be the new suppliers for the Bonnanos.

The Gambinos and Bonnanos split market share in NY. It looks as if the Bonnanos are trying to increase thier level of control, so as to not be so reliant on the Gambinos connections.

We were JUST talking about this, that I think Ontario might control Buffalo now.....

[CabriniGreen]

Check this thread, the last page..... we are behind on this topic here..


http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbth ... 887&page=9

[Wiseguy]

Another reason some of you guys should pay more attention, instead of trying to throw cold water on every discussion about this shit.

I've BEEN ( in my most exhausted voice...) trying to get people to see the INTERNATIONAL structure of the Italian run drug trade. That it is a VERY powerful "lobby" in LCN politics. And that we need to map that structure.

I've been saying the Rizzutos were powerful for narcotics CONNECTIONS, that have been superseded by the Calabrians.

Essentially, guys like the Violi brothers, through thier connections, and possibly through controlling smuggling routes through Buffalo, could be the new suppliers for the Bonnanos.

The Gambinos and Bonnanos split market share in NY. It looks as if the Bonnanos are trying to increase thier level of control, so as to not be so reliant on the Gambinos connections.

We were JUST talking about this, that I think Ontario might control Buffalo now.....

The only cold water that's been thrown is when people (not necessarily on this forum thank God) try to make more out of the Buffalo family (including with the recent drug case) than is really there.

At heart, you approach this stuff much like I do. While many are most interested in the power structure side of things, i.e who is in what position, or the murders, you seem to be more interested (like myself) is the nuts and bolts business side of things and how that all works. As I said before, I just think you're a little too drug-centric, even to the point it becomes a matter of the tail wagging the dog. Drugs are certainly a core racket for the NY families, some more than others, but the drug trade alone is not the hub which it all revolves around. At least not for the American mob, where gambling is more important.

Check this thread, the last page..... we are behind on this topic here..


http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbth ... 887&page=9

The best thing about that thread, after all the debate, was that prick Rooster being kicked to the curb.

[scagghiuni]

I don't think so. This would mean the Violis are Bonanno members.

in fact they probably are, like their father

[Lupara]

The best thing about that thread, after all the debate, was that prick Rooster being kicked to the curb.

But the one who ordered the hit was the same one who took out a hit on you. The BH borgata, Toronto Calabrians, Five Families, Rizzuto-Cuntrera-Caruana transatlantic partnership and revived Todaro crime syndicate are still looking at how you gonna strike back. Because it's been years rumors are spreading that you and your crew are growing soft. Word on the street is that some punks of the GBB glorified crew are attempting to encroach on your territory in Utah and taking over your business relationship with the Genoveses. I'm just saying something needs to be done.

[Wiseguy]

The best thing about that thread, after all the debate, was that prick Rooster being kicked to the curb.

But the one who ordered the hit was the same one who took out a hit on you. The BH borgata, Toronto Calabrians, Five Families, Rizzuto-Cuntrera-Caruana transatlantic partnership and revived Todaro crime syndicate are still looking at how you gonna strike back. Because it's been years rumors are spreading that you and your crew are growing soft. Word on the street is that some punks of the GBB glorified crew are attempting to encroach on your territory in Utah and taking over your business relationship with the Genoveses. I'm just saying something needs to be done.

I have a funny feeling they're going to start a fucking war or something. I'm not sure yet but you know what I want you to do? Get a couple of guys to dig a hole in the desert, then let 'em show you where it's at. And when I'm ready I'll say, "Go see the one who ordered the hit," and you make 'em disappear, you know what I mean?

[B.]

I understand there is a wider context for many of these relationships, especially in the complex world of international drug trafficking, and cases like the French Connection and Pizza Connection showed how members of different international mafia groups overlap and intersect in their own informal power structures as well as how their formal mafia affiliations come into play, but it's important not to confuse these things. Much of the information available on Montreal and Canada falls into the former category but people try to apply the terminology of the latter onto that which is just not correct. It would have been like calling Sal Catalano the boss and Giuseppe Ganci the underboss of the "organization" that facilitated the 1970s/80s Pizza Connection (which itself would have been only one interpretation of the network's informal power structure).

Now discussing or even debating whether the informal yet HIGHLY organized networks are more important and significant than the formal mafia affiliations is another topic and I think that I would probably agree with many of you who say that those networks and the informal hierarchy in those networks is more important. But I don't like to see people suddenly start calling those networks themselves "mafia families" or even "the mafia" because that's not what they are.

If the Violis attended a Bonanno ceremony, that is an indication -- though not a full-on confirmation -- that they are Bonanno members. I suppose it's possible that non-Bonanno members were invited to a ceremony for some reason we don't know. With these discussions we have to look at the precedent, though, because as much as the mafia changes the more its basic structure and practices stay similar if not the same. Changes are generally the result of LE pressure and a group with strong traditions like Cosa Nostra does not typically make changes without some kind of reason, even if that reason is laziness. Inviting two non-Bonanno members to a Bonanno induction would not fall into the laziness category or have any other obvious motivation so either there was a very specific reason for it, or the Violis are Bonanno members given that most making ceremonies are attended only by members of that family (Bill Bonanno's questionable ceremony and the C.War joint Lucchese/Bonanno ceremony being exceptions, though with the latter there was a clear reason for it). Speaking of precedent, the Violis' father and possibly uncles were all Bonanno members and it's common for the sons of even murdered members/leaders to stay within the same family despite what happened to their father, so factor that in as well.

The problem with calling them simply "Calabrian OC" is that they can be Calabrian OC and still be members of a mafia group that is not strictly Calabrian. Their father and the Cotronis were organized criminals of Calabrian heritage with connections to other Calabrians but formally affiliated with the Bonanno family, which is how they were recognized by members of other mafia groups. A lot of this stuff comes down to this simple question: if one of these guys is being introduced to another member of Cosa Nostra from another family, which group would they be introduced as a member of? There are few if any known examples of people being confirmed members of two different organizations at the same time, so there would in theory be one answer to this question. We know that regardless of someone's place in a network, they have one group they are supposed to be formally affiliated with. I am going to go with the 100+ years of examples we have to make my assumptions, which are still assumptions, but they are based on systems that have not changed through those years.

The mafia is largely based on the simple act of being "recognized". It's not always the case, as there are exceptions and complex politics at play, but recognition is one of the most powerful assets the mafia has on both a group and individual level. It's why the Gallos couldn't just start their own family out of nowhere. If other mafia groups don't recognize your family, they don't recognize your membership, and if members aren't being recognized there is no true mafia organization, only organized criminal activity which is different from "mafia". If Montreal or Canada has its own Cosa Nostra families, that would require recognition from other Cosa Nostra groups, be they American or Sicilian.

One thing that's clear is that the Violis seem to have attended a Cosa Nostra making ceremony, which indicates that they are formally affiliated with Cosa Nostra.

[johnny_scootch]

One thing that's clear is that the Violis seem to have attended a Cosa Nostra making ceremony, which indicates that they are formally affiliated with Cosa Nostra.

However unlikely it seems there is still a chance the Violi brothers are members of the Todaro family. If they aren't Bonannos it makes more sense that they are Todaro family then 'Ndrangheta.

[B.]

One thing that's clear is that the Violis seem to have attended a Cosa Nostra making ceremony, which indicates that they are formally affiliated with Cosa Nostra.

However unlikely it seems there is still a chance the Violi brothers are members of the Todaro family. If they aren't Bonannos it makes more sense that they are Todaro family then 'Ndrangheta.

Yep, that's what I meant by that line. If this ceremony info is true, it's clear the Violis recognize Cosa Nostra and are recognized as Cosa Nostra themselves otherwise they would not be at that ceremony. The only two Cosa Nostra families they could conceivably fall under are the Buffalo and Bonanno families unless the Gambino connection goes way beyond anything we imagined. There seem to be some satellite crews of Sicilian mafia families operating in Canada but the idea of them inducting Canadian-born Calabrians into organizations based in Sicily and to have those members then attend a Bonanno ceremony is getting a bit "far out".

[B.]

I remember speculation during the height of the war that the Violi brothers were working with Sal Montagna. If they are indeed Bonanno members as this seems to suggest, that adds an interesting element to it. This is pure, blind speculation but remember that Sal Montagna was the highest ranking Bonanno member outside of prison at the time he was deported as well as the longest running Bonanno leader on the street since Massino went away. It's not inconceivable to me that he conducted his own making ceremonies and felt he had the authority to do it, but again that's pure speculation. If acting captain Zummo was traveling to Canada to conduct a ceremony, it's not a stretch to believe (former) NY acting boss/would-be Montreal captain(?) Montagna conducted ceremonies while living there and actively trying to reorganize the landscape.

[johnny_scootch]

I haven't thought about the prospect of Sal making guys in Canada but it's certainly possible.

Anyone have any guesses on who this 'John' was that also attended the ceremony????



“The reason why we’re here is from this day forward, you’re gonna be an official member of the Bonanno family,” Zummo says, according to a transcript of the ceremony.

“It’s already — from this guy, this guy, this guy — everybody approved it, so from this day forward, you’re a member of the Bonanno family. Congratulations,” said Zummo.

“Thank you,” the recruit said.

The new member was then formally introduced to other members using the traditional Mafia code of calling a made man a “friend of ours,” and then old the internal hierarchy of he reports to, called a captain or skipper.

“And now I want to introduce you to John. John, friend of ours with the Bonanno. John, (name of agent deleted), friend of ours with the Bonanno. Now, your captain is (name deleted.)”

“Okay,” said the recruit.

“He’s our skipper. (Nickname of Bonanno member deleted), is our acting… You’re gonna be in our regime,” Zummo allegedly said.

“Okay.”

“You only answer to the Bonanno family.”


From the way I read this Zummo tells Morena who their captain is and who their acting captain is......What does that make Zummo?

[B.]

Good question. He could be referring to "our" in the general sense since he is representing the Bonanno family by conducting the ceremony, so "our skipper" and "our regime" could mean "belonging to the Bonanno family". The fact that he follows this up with "You only answer to the Bonanno family" sort of points to that. Hopefully more comes out about Zummo and why he specifically was chosen for this task. Also, was he identified as Italian-born? If so, we may have to factor in some slight broken English. Some of the excerpts are phrased awkwardly which could lend itself to that but hard to say.

[antimafia]

Regarding Domenico and Giuseppe Violi's being present at a Bonanno making ceremony, recall that their maternal grandfather, Giacomo Luppino, and at least one other son of Luppino were reported to have been at the making ceremony for Paul Volpe of the Buffalo Family. I've quoted below from a book review of James Dubro's Mob rule, which was published in 1985:

That Volpe ever managed to become an initiated member of southern Ontario's Italian Mafia is a feat in itself. He spoke no Italian and had no family members in the organization, but, through selective socializing, managed to gain the confidence of various mafiosi including Hamilton's Luppino crime family, Volpe's sponsors at his Mafia swearing-in ceremony in 1961.

Source: By DAN BURKE Special to The Gazette. The Gazette [Montreal, Que] 16 Nov 1985: J4.
_______________

Dubro has been careful to distinguish between sponsors who were present at Volpe's induction ceremony and sponsors who faciliated Volpe's entrée into the American LCN. One such facilitating sponsor was Vincenzo "Jimmy" Luppino, who may very well have been in attendance for Volpe's ceremony. An early facilitating sponsor was Vito De Filippo of the Bonanno Family in New York.

[Wiseguy]

One thing that's clear is that the Violis seem to have attended a Cosa Nostra making ceremony, which indicates that they are formally affiliated with Cosa Nostra.

However unlikely it seems there is still a chance the Violi brothers are members of the Todaro family. If they aren't Bonannos it makes more sense that they are Todaro family then 'Ndrangheta.

Yep, that's what I meant by that line. If this ceremony info is true, it's clear the Violis recognize Cosa Nostra and are recognized as Cosa Nostra themselves otherwise they would not be at that ceremony. The only two Cosa Nostra families they could conceivably fall under are the Buffalo and Bonanno families unless the Gambino connection goes way beyond anything we imagined. There seem to be some satellite crews of Sicilian mafia families operating in Canada but the idea of them inducting Canadian-born Calabrians into organizations based in Sicily and to have those members then attend a Bonanno ceremony is getting a bit "far out".

Again, we have this press release from U.S. authorities -

In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organized crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organized crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/me ... s-arrested

The 9 that were arrested were -

1. Domenico Paolo Violi, Hamilton
2. Adriano Valentino Scolieri, Richmond Hill
3. Bernardo Luke Rotolo, Woodbridge;
4. Dimitar Dimitrov, Stoney Creek
5. Tran Giang Tang, Markham
6. Kam Tim Tong, Markham
7. Nicholas Valentine, Vaughan
8. Anthony James Arroyo, Waterloo
9. James Lincoln Jablonski, Mississauga.

Then you had these ones captured later -

Giuseppe Violi, Burlington
Massimigliano Carfagna, Burlington
Yin Yun Leong, Markham
Witton Luu, Toronto
Wojciech Grezesiowski, Innisfill


The "members of the Todaro crime family" seems to be in reference to some of the 9 arrested originally, though perhaps it's possible that other ones captured later were among those the feds were talking about. Either way, if the feds were correct, at least 2 of those names in bold are members of the Buffalo family.

[UTC]

Do you think there is a Todaro crime family?