5 Family's Making Ceremonies

[slimshady_007]

Does anyone know when sal montagna or mikey nose mancuso was made?

Mike Mancuso was made in the 1996-1999 time period. Released from prison in '96 after doing time for manslaughter, and was probably a soldier by the time he was involved in the Sciascia hit.

He was involved in the sciascia hit? As far as I remember pat defilippo was the shooter and johnny joe spirito was the driver

Mancuso was driving a crash car

Oh ok strange that he was never indicted

[John W]

Does anyone know when sal montagna or mikey nose mancuso was made?

Mike Mancuso was made in the 1996-1999 time period. Released from prison in '96 after doing time for manslaughter, and was probably a soldier by the time he was involved in the Sciascia hit.

He was involved in the sciascia hit? As far as I remember pat defilippo was the shooter and johnny joe spirito was the driver

Mancuso was driving a crash car

Oh ok strange that he was never indicted

We know who the shooters of Paul Castellano were but none of them have ever been indicted for it.

[Snakes]

They probably don't have enough corroborating evidence (physical or otherwise) to indict for murder. Was Gravano the only one involved in the hit that flipped?

[gohnjotti]

Does anyone know when sal montagna or mikey nose mancuso was made?

Mike Mancuso was made in the 1996-1999 time period. Released from prison in '96 after doing time for manslaughter, and was probably a soldier by the time he was involved in the Sciascia hit.

He was involved in the sciascia hit? As far as I remember pat defilippo was the shooter and johnny joe spirito was the driver

Mancuso was driving a crash car

Oh ok strange that he was never indicted

"As boss of the Bonanno family, I gave the order," Massino said of Sciascia's death.
"And the order was to do what?" U.S. Judge Nicholas Garaufis asked.
"Kill George from Canada," Massino replied. "It was done by Sal Vitale, Johnny Joe, Michael Nose and Patty DeFilippo."
"Michael Nose is?" asked the judge.
"He's a captain in the Bonanno family," Massino replied.
"I don't know their proper names," he told the judge. 

The thing is, in Sal Vitale's lengthy, detailed testimony, he never mentoned Mikey Nose. Apparently Mancuso's involvement was a secret known only to Massino. Vitale planned the hit whilst Mike drove a crash car. Massino's word ALONE isn't a strong enough case especially when you've got another witness involved in the shooting who can say the opposite.

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

How can Massino credibly tell the judge he does not know
Mikey Noses' actual name? It was his captain!

[Pogo The Clown]

How can Massino credibly tell the judge he does not know
Mikey Noses' actual name? It was his captain!

Not too surprising. I believe it was Vinny Palermo who testified that he didn't know Stefano Vitabile's last name even though they had known each other for like 30 years and Vitabile was the family Consiglieri. In Pistone's book he talks about how it was years beforeLefty learned his last name and vice versa. A lot of these guy's don't divulge that info. I can see how Massino would only know Mancuso by his nickname since he would have just been one of well over a hundred made members in his family.


Pogo

[B.]

The little "book" is in storage so I can't look, but I remember Cicale saying something about Mancuso not following through during the Sciascia murder though he was supposed to, though DeFilippo defended or vouched for him afterward. Anyone have it on hand to confirm? This wouldn't necessarily conflict with Massino or Vitale's info, as Mancuso was still part of the murder conspiracy and neither Massino or Vitale were on the scene, only DeFilippo and Spirito who were close to Mancuso.

I've advocated for at least considering Cicale's other info in the face of those on here with a clear bias against anything he says, but to be fair he has a clear agenda against Mancuso and Cicale himself would have heard this info on the Sciascia hit third hand at best, so consider that as well (assuming I'm remember right to begin with).

[gohnjotti]

The little "book" is in storage so I can't look, but I remember Cicale saying something about Mancuso not following through during the Sciascia murder though he was supposed to, though DeFilippo defended or vouched for him afterward. Anyone have it on hand to confirm? This wouldn't necessarily conflict with Massino or Vitale's info, as Mancuso was still part of the murder conspiracy and neither Massino or Vitale were on the scene, only DeFilippo and Spirito who were close to Mancuso.

I've advocated for at least considering Cicale's other info in the face of those on here with a clear bias against anything he says, but to be fair he has a clear agenda against Mancuso and Cicale himself would have heard this info on the Sciascia hit third hand at best, so consider that as well (assuming I'm remember right to begin with).

I can't imagine a situation where Cicale would ever commend or compliment Mike Mancuso. He's got a serious grudge against Mikey Nose for taking the acting boss title instead of going with the panel that Basciano wanted. Also important to remember that the Sciascia hit was a full four years before Cicale was made. But nevertheless, thanks for the info B.

That wouldn't be the first time Cicale has said Mancuso is scared of murder.
Here's another quote from him:
"Always makes himself scarce whenever there is heavy work to be done." This was regarding hits, of course.

I really don't think this is true. Look at his record - started out in the violent East Harlem Purple Gang, whacked his wife in a heated argument, took part in the Sciascia hit, aggressively seized the family after Basciano was locked up, and advocated for upholding all the hit contracts that Basciano had. "Nothing skips a beat," he said regarding hits. Cicale also recalled that he tried to keep Mancuso from knowing about certain contracts to save people's lives, but Mancuso would always find out and push for them to be done. Does that sound like a man averse to murder?

Of course, this is just my two cents. Cicale obviously knows a hell of a lot more about the situation than I do, but the question is whether he's letting old grudges cloud his memory.

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

How can Massino credibly tell the judge he does not know
Mikey Noses' actual name? It was his captain!

Not too surprising. I believe it was Vinny Palermo who testified that he didn't know Stefano Vitabile's last name even though they had known each other for like 30 years and Vitabile was the family Consiglieri. In Pistone's book he talks about how it was years beforeLefty learned his last name and vice versa. A lot of these guy's don't divulge that info. I can see how Massino would only know Mancuso by his nickname since he would have just been one of well over a hundred made members in his family.


Pogo

Very interesting. Only nicknames and first names used to
insulate themselves. So thats where the dope slingers in
the ATL got that idea.

[Luca Brasi]

Great stuff guy's. Thanks for the info.


Didn't Casso also claim he was made in 1974?


Pogo

Really good stuff Pogo,
Its really amazing to me seeing certain guys, who held so much sway in a particular family, only having been made within the last 20 yrs or so. I know the law is a big reason for advancement in most cases, but Matty Madonna and Bobby Vernace were two that definitely stuck out. Take care,

Luca

[gohnjotti]

Is there an official timeframe as to when the Colombos began making new members following the Third Colombo War? Do we know for certain that it was early 2000, or could it have been earlier?

[Pogo The Clown]

Yes. From what JD discovered their books were closed by the other families from mid-1991-February 2000 due to the Colombo War and its aftermath. I can't think of anyone who was made during that period. During this period they lost 33-36 members (half of whom they couldn't replace due to them flipping of being killed).


Pogo

[gohnjotti]

In the 1990s, Anthony Russo - the Scopo murderer and turncoat, not the imprisoned-for-life son of Andy Mush - apparently complained to Frank Guerra about the fact that other people were being inducted into the family before him, despite his work on the Scopo hit. Guerra complained to Michael Persico, who got Frank Persico and Anthony Stropoli to confront Russo.
https://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar_ca ... s_sdt=2006

[Pogo The Clown]

The link doesn't work for me. The time frame is probably off though. Russo wasn't made until 9 years after the books opened so the 2000s period is likely the time frame he would have been complaining since a bunch of guy's were being made then. Looking at JDs list of the confirmed members in early 2000 they were all members by 1991. I can't think of anyone made during the 1992-1999 period.


Pogo

[gohnjotti]

The link doesn't work for me. The time frame is probably off though. Russo wasn't made until 9 years after the books opened so the 2000s period is likely the time frame he would have been complaining since a bunch of guy's were being made then. Looking at JDs list of the confirmed members in early 2000 they were all members by 1991. I can't think of anyone made during the 1992-1999 period.


Pogo

If so, then you're probably correct Pogo. Here is the quote from the memo:
Russo also testified about the use of violence and intimidation that defined the Colombo Family during his tenure. For this, he offered an anecdote from the late 1990s, when he was angry that other people were being inducted into the Colombo Family before him, despite his role in the Scopo murder and his demonstration of loyalty to the Persicos. Id. at 90-91. He voiced his frustrations to Guerra, who, in turn, informed Defendant. Id. at 91-92. The next day, Frank Persico and Stropoli confronted Russo about his commentary, suggesting such opinions would get him into "trouble." Id. at 92. By openly insinuating that Defendant and the Colombo Family had done wrong by him, Russo had insulted them and risked retribution; by informing Defendant about these statements, Guerra hoped to stop Russo from speaking in a way that "could get [him] killed."[19] Id.

https://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar_ca ... s_sdt=2006


Since the timeframe that Russo gives is "late 1990s" it's very likely that he was simply getting confused with the dates. It was confirmed that guys were being proposed for induction in the 90s, but the ceremonies themselves were halted until the Commission reopened their books.
Thanks for clearing that up, Pogo.