Mafia myths debunked

[brianwellbrock]

I remember doing something like this on the other forum but didn't get much responses. So I'm bored and if anyone has stuff too add, or go into detail of things that have been discovered that goes against the usual mafia history talking points that are always thrown out their. LIke, Luciano founded the mafia. I'll start.
and again, I do not take credit for finding any of this info, just to show what I'm meaning.

-"Bruno ruled with an iron fist with a velvet glove" - everytime I hear Anastasia say that I want to vomit. The general idea of Bruno being a great leader when it has now been discovered by some posters on here and recent revelations by Philip Leonetti is that Bruno was indecisive and beefed with those who were supposedly close to him.

The Salvy Testa murder brought down Scarfo- everyone involved in the Testa murder benefited and either moved up or got richer or both. What brought Scarfo down was that he had a dozen murders and shootings in his reign that each involved 4,5,6 or more guys, who were involved in multiple ones. So one guy flips, and a lot of people go down.

- Scarfo being banished to A.C. for being too violent. He was already working in A.C. before 1964 when he went to jail. In '62 or '63 he had a meeting with Bruno saying he didn't want to write numbers for his uncle anymore, and Skinny Razor advised that Scarfo would now be working at his club. He was even noted before he went to jail of driving to Jersey everyday. He goes to jail for nine months, maybe loses his house, maybe figures what the hell, my family is already their, I operate their, why not move in?

[rayray]

Don't deal drugs when it was more like either don't ask and don't tell or that some where almost expected while others were told don't deal drugs or else.

[Pogo The Clown]

Here are some more.


-That Salvatre Maranzano created the 5 families in 1931 when they existed decades before.


-That you have to take part in a murder in order to get made. Even at the mobs peak this was never true.


-That the mob still kills people when in fact it is extremely rare for mob to kill someone in this day and age. This is more of a public perception due to the portrayal of the mob in the media.


Pogo

[B.]

Here are some more.


-That Salvatre Maranzano created the 5 families in 1931 when they existed decades before.


-That you have to take part in a murder in order to get made. Even at the mobs peak this was never true.


-That the mob still kills people when in fact it is extremely rare for mob to kill someone in this day and age. This is more of a public perception due to the portrayal of the mob in the media.


Pogo

Yeah, and even in the height of an old mob war you were more likely to see a few strategic hits and not the great bloodletting you see in the Godfather or read about in "creative" accounts of the Castellammarese war. Maranzano was pretty clear that they didn't want to waste energy killing low-level associates/soldiers and instead focused on getting the big guys. I guess they figure that as long as Masseria/Morello/Mineo were alive, they could easily recruit followers. With the head, the rest of the body would die out.

When you think about how long the Bonanno war lasted, it's amazing how few hits there actually were. The rest of the families must have been terrified of Joe Bonanno's connections when you think about how they dealt with him.

The Colombo war of the 90's and what was going on in Montreal are actually two of the bloodiest N.American mob wars we've seen and they're also the most recent, with Montreal winning it by a landslide.

[Pogo The Clown]

Another myth is how in the old days guy's wouldn't rat. As we have seen from these MaryFerrell files and SS files these guy's have been ratting on each other since the beginning. Only now they can do it oenly because of the WPP and no fear of retaliation.


Pogo

[Lupara]

We compiled some 25 or so murders during the Castellammarese war on the old forum. That's pretty bloodletting if you ask me. Without a doubt, the Castellammarese and the Montreal wars were the biggest in the history of the North-American Mafia. Both are major wars in their own right, with the 1930-31 war being more significant and Montreal having even more bodies. It's amazing that a war such as in Montreal happened during this day and age.

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[ukthesis]

Can you supply this list? There were many other bootlegging related murders at the time, but we need to know which ones were part of the Cast. War or not. I tried to go through the ones we know were War related for my book.

[Pogo The Clown]

This list was compiled by myself, Lupara, HairyKnuckles and Limey.


Killed:
Gaetano Reina [Lucchese/Masseria] February 26, 1930
Anthony Bonventre [Maranzano] Marh 1930
John Torres [Maranzano] March 1930
Gaspar Milazzo [Maranzano-Detroit] May 31, 1930
Sam Parrino [ Maranzano-Detroit] May 31, 1931
Vito Bonventre [Maranzano] July 15, 1930
Giuseppe Morello [Masseria] August 15, 1930
Giuseppe Pariano [Masseria] August 15, 1930
Joseph Pinzolo [Lucchese/Masseria] September 1930
Pasquale D'Auria killed [Maranzano] October 1930
Ruggerio Consiglio [Masseria] October 8, 1930
Giovanni Anselmo [Masseria] October 18, 1930
Giuseppe Aiello [Maranzano] October 23, 1930
Benjamin Gallo [Maranzano] November 1930
Al Mineo [Gambino/Masseria] November 5, 1930
Stefano Ferrigno [Gambino/Masseria] November 5, 1930
Joseph Parrino [Masseria] January 1931
Frank Marco [Maranzano] February 1931
Joseph Catania [Masseria] February 3, 1931
Chester LaMare [Masseria-Detroit] February, 7 1931
Giuseppe Masseria [Masseria] April, 15 1931
Louis Riggiona (?)


Wounded:
Frank Italiano [Maranzano] October 1930
Paolo Gambino [Masseria]
Joseph Roa [Masseria]


Plus the casualties in the fighting in Chicago between Capone-Aiello annd in Detroit among the different factions (which is said to number 15). I'm sure we are missing others in NYC.


Pogo

[ukthesis]

I got some of those but what makes you believe that these other murders were part of the War?

Anthony Bonventre [Maranzano] Marh 1930 (I did look into this killing and found a news clipping about arrests in the case, and the guys arrested were not apparently involved in the War)

Pasquale D'Auria killed [Maranzano] October 1930.

Ruggerio Consiglio [Masseria] October 8, 1930
Giovanni Anselmo [Masseria] October 18, 1930

(I did wonder about these two, but there was nothing I could find directly linking them to the War)

Benjamin Gallo [Maranzano] November 1930

Frank Marco [Maranzano] February 1931 (is this the one wrongly identified by Patrick Downey as Buster from Chicago?)

Louis Riggiona (?)

On the other murders in Chicago and Detroit, the problem there is that in this period there was a lot of fighting for other causes, so we have to be careful about only including those where we have evidence of a Castellammare War connection.

[HairyKnuckles]

"Anthony Bonventre [Maranzano] Marh 1930 (I did look into this killing and found a news clipping about arrests in the case, and the guys arrested were not apparently involved in the War)"

- Dave, do you remember the names of the guys arrested?

"Pasquale D'Auria killed [Maranzano] October 1930."

- If memory serves, D´Auria was with Frank Italiano when both of them were shot.

"Ruggerio Consiglio [Masseria] October 8, 1930
Giovanni Anselmo [Masseria] October 18, 1930"

- These two were the ones that most fits your own theory, mentioned in your book, on who the two guys were Valachi talked about when he described what happened when the gropus headed by Gagliano and Maranzano joined forces.

"Benjamin Gallo [Maranzano] November 1930"

- Gallo was described in newspaper clippings as Vito Bonventre´s successor and I believe, as his former right hand man.

[ukthesis]

Good to talk to you. There aren't many interested in these early years, so it's great to have the views of others who have gone into it.

Unfortunately, I gave my research files to Lennert, my friend in Holland, a few weeks ago. Do you know Lennert? I can give you his email if you like. I was running out of storage space at home, a problem that many others will recognise if they are into buying a lot of these books, I’m sure!

I would place Consiglio and Anselmo in the “possibly” or even "likely" victims of the War, speaking personally. The trouble all through is that there were a lot of bootlegging killings unrelated to the War so this is why I had to be careful in my book. Plus, my mentioning them was based almost entirely on descriptions in newspapers of the day, which is the only source I had.

On Gallo, I think that the newspaper accounts of this period were not that reliable. They had no idea of the Castellammare War and often, if a big guy in a neighbourhood was killed, they looked around for a “successor.” So that anyone who might have known Bonventre, and was a quite interesting figure to the police, would likely as not have been labelled as his successor.

[HairyKnuckles]

Yes, I have Lennert´s email.

[ukthesis]

He's a very good man and a few weeks ago, I needed to clear out some files and gave Lennert 18 very, very large boxes full of most of my research records. I know they're going to a good new home, of course, with Lennert. From memory, on this other Bonventre, it took me quite a time to find the followup article about who was arrested. From memory, I don't think the guys taken in even had Italian names.

[Lupara]

From memory, I don't think the guys taken in even had Italian names.

Mad Dog Coll didn't have an Italian name either.

[B.]

We compiled some 25 or so murders during the Castellammarese war on the old forum. That's pretty bloodletting if you ask me. Without a doubt, the Castellammarese and the Montreal wars were the biggest in the history of the North-American Mafia. Both are major wars in their own right, with the 1930-31 war being more significant and Montreal having even more bodies. It's amazing that a war such as in Montreal happened during this day and age.

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It's a relative thing. 25 murders across the country during what's been described as the biggest mob war in American history is not that huge to me, especially with the myths saying there were 60+ murders and bodies lining the streets. 25 would still be significant of course, assuming they all were actually because of the war and not other reasons as Dave has said.