Businness or blood/George from Canada

[JeremyTheJew]

this may sound stupid...

in the very begin of the book it has the inportant dates and events.

it says "George from Canads murdered by Gambino Family and no reprisal from Vitos own FAmily. "

suprised they got that wrong?

leads me to ask is there any ties w Gambino and montreal?

[yatescj7781]

Sciascia had ties with Angela ruggierio, Gene Gotti and that crew. Drug deals. Very disappointed in qathat book. Tough read.

[Lupara]

The authors made some errors particulary concerning the American mobsters. I suspect they confused his murder with the one of Joseph LoPresti, who is believed to be killed as a result of his connection with Angelo Ruggiero.

Canadian crime journalists are very patriotic concerning their Italian Mafia and consider it more significant than the one south of the border...

[JeremyTheJew]

very interesting on george w the gotti crew....

would george have been looked as capo over vito??

[JeremyTheJew]

The authors made some errors particulary concerning the American mobsters. I suspect they confused his murder with the one of Joseph LoPresti, who is believed to be killed as a result of his connection with Angelo Ruggiero.

Canadian crime journalists are very patriotic concerning their Italian Mafia and consider it more significant than the one south of the border...

LoPresti was a direct relative of Rizzutos i believe? do you know more about this murder?

seems the Rizzutos / Montreal didnt become the powerhouses until after George was killed and leading to the possible seperation from Bonannos.

but hasnt the cuntrera family been one of the most powerfull sicilian fams for long time?

[Lupara]

The authors made some errors particulary concerning the American mobsters. I suspect they confused his murder with the one of Joseph LoPresti, who is believed to be killed as a result of his connection with Angelo Ruggiero.

Canadian crime journalists are very patriotic concerning their Italian Mafia and consider it more significant than the one south of the border...

LoPresti was a direct relative of Rizzutos i believe? do you know more about this murder?

seems the Rizzutos / Montreal didnt become the powerhouses until after George was killed and leading to the possible seperation from Bonannos.

but hasnt the cuntrera family been one of the most powerfull sicilian fams for long time?

LoPresti was from the same hometown and he and his family were close to the Rizzutos and Sciascia. At the time when he was killed he was a neighbour of the Rizzutos on 'Mafia row'. He was a made member of the Montreal crew and right-hand man of Sciascia. He was into selling drugs with Angelo Ruggiero and an addict himself which was a factor in why he was killed on orders of Sciascia who was believed to be pressured by Gotti after Ruggiero was busted.

LoPresti's son Lorenzo also became involved in the Mafia and his father's murder was the likely reason why he distanced himself from his peasani and became close to Montagna. I suspect the Rizzuto faction killed him shortly before Montagna's murder by the hands of Desjardins men.

[B.]

Giuseppe LoPresti was ID'd the acting captain of the Sciascia/Montreal crew and used as the go-between in Montreal and New York due to Sciascia's legal problems.

[Slumpy]

Forgetting about nY for a moment, where was Sciascia on the MTL totem pole? Was he generally accepted to be the "boss" of the MTL crew, or was he a veil hiding the real power in the Rizzutos?

[yatescj7781]

very interesting on george w the gotti crew....

would george have been looked as capo over vito??

To the American Mob yes, particularly the Gambino's and Bonanno's. In the Montreal Mafia he was the liaison to the NY Mob. The main conduit for drug transactions. He was under the Rizzuto's, but considered the Capo of the Canadian Crew of the Bonanno's. Which is why when they whacked him Massino sent an envoy to choose the new capo of the Bonanno Montreal Crew.

[Lupara]

very interesting on george w the gotti crew....

would george have been looked as capo over vito??

To the American Mob yes, particularly the Gambino's and Bonanno's. In the Montreal Mafia he was the liaison to the NY Mob. The main conduit for drug transactions. He was under the Rizzuto's, but considered the Capo of the Canadian Crew of the Bonanno's. Which is why when they whacked him Massino sent an envoy to choose the new capo of the Bonanno Montreal Crew.

Sciascia wasn't under the Rizzutos. At best he represented them because of hometown loyalties, but formally he was their superior. No need to overcomplicate things.

Even though the Rizzutos were more or less running their own show they were obligated to follow protocol if orders came down from New York through Sciascia. A good example is the three capos hit or Joe LoPresti's murder. Surely they weren't giving Sciascia orders..

[Slumpy]

Is it possible that they had Vito made just to open certain doors, to be seen as a legitimate gangster by Americans? Surely Massino knew the score in MTL, since he extended the option to take Sciascia's place as capo to Vito Rizzuto? All the friction between the Cotroni/Violi faction and the Sicilians, couldn't have escaped the Bonanno administration; particularly their unwillingness to fall in line with Cotroni's chosen successor since it is in of itself a challenge to the Bonanno's control over the crew, isn't it? Isn't that the real reason Sciascia was clipped? Massino thumbing his nose at the Rizzutos?

From where i'm sitting it looks like Massino whacked Sciascia knowing it would hurt relations with MTL and then offered the position to the man he knew was really running the show as a way of trying to keep them in the Bonanno fold. I defer to your knowledge, Lupara, because you definitely are better informed than I am. But this is how i always understood the Bonanno/Rizzuto beef. Am I wrong?

[JeremyTheJew]

Sciasci also "challenged" Massino by talking badly about Graziano being cokehead

[Slumpy]

He complained to Vitale about a few people and defended the LoPresti hit to him as well. Massino apparently took issue with it as he hadn't greenlit the hit.

[Slumpy]

and I may be misremembering here, but I believe in The Sixth Family it's claimed that Rizzuto refused to send a hit man down to NYC to carry out Massino's orders, a move which Sciascia also defended shortly before being murdered.

[B.]

There are no member sources from Montreal to our knowledge who have ever provided information on the true power dynamics up there. It has been old FBN-style LE practices (which is great for prosecuting specific criminal networks/crimes, but not for understanding the organizations themselves) and well-researched but nonetheless limited and speculative journalism that has provided most people's "understanding" of Montreal. I'm not discounting the information that has come from those sources, but it is the perspective of outsiders.

Sciascia was a Bonanno captain for close to two decades and I believe a ruling panel member before his death. By all accounts, including high-ranking member sources and LE, he was a first-among-equals in New York, Montreal, and Sicily, to the point where the boss of a thriving NYC family had to cover up his murder. Were they scared of retribution from the Rizzutos and other Sciascia allies? Seems like it, but it should say more about Sciascia's position and who he was, especially given that much of "cover-up" took place in NYC. Remember, too, that Vitale claimed Baldo Amato came to him in tears, seemingly inconsolable over the murder of his "compare". Baldo Amato was a vicious killer with a circle of brutal young thugs around him. According to Cicale, Sal Montagna was placed under Patty DeFilippo to keep an eye on him following the Sciascia murder as well. Massino had as much reason to worry about them as he did Rizzuto, but it's not as exciting as other narratives. Most Montreal discussions belong in the "sports" section as people seem to be fans of a specific "team" and can't let it go.