Chicago Outfit Lineage Chart 1928-2017

[Frank]

I think we are all in agreement that if someone wants to challenge the final chart with good information we are open to find out the truth in areas where there is conflicting information.

[Angelo Santino]

That's the thing, there ain't no "final chart," it's like Kiss broke up and no one wants to be Peter Criss.

Maybe instead of definitive, we try and do this by era, which can be divided up by... *long sigh... the toppest, most powerful leader or... *longer sigh... 2 leaders. And within each era we include everybody: if there's 3 guys suspected of being in the same rank at the same time and only 1 can be correct, we list all three and include sources as well as a paragraph explaining why for each candidate.

Take for instance Sam Giancana's "era," I've read he had an underboss, also read he didn't want one. Accardo's over him; Giancana toppled him, etc. Since we can't agree on how it went down and Chicago isn't here to tell us what his father witnessed, let's offer up alternatives on one chart, backed up by sources even if they conflict with each other.

While not being able to agree on the admin, could we all come to an agreement to lay things out this-a-way? Win-win, everyone gets their say (so as long as its sourced) and it's less work for me.

[Frank]

That's the thing, there ain't no "final chart," it's like Kiss broke up and no one wants to be Peter Criss.

Maybe instead of definitive, we try and do this by era, which can be divided up by... *long sigh... the toppest, most powerful leader or... *longer sigh... 2 leaders. And within each era we include everybody: if there's 3 guys suspected of being in the same rank at the same time and only 1 can be correct, we list all three and include sources as well as a paragraph explaining why for each candidate.

Take for instance Sam Giancana's "era," I've read he had an underboss, also read he didn't want one. Accardo's over him; Giancana toppled him, etc. Since we can't agree on how it went down and Chicago isn't here to tell us what his father witnessed, let's offer up alternatives on one chart, backed up by sources even if they conflict with each other.

While not being able to agree on the admin, could we all come to an agreement to lay things out this-a-way? Win-win, everyone gets their say (so as long as its sourced) and it's less work for me.

Is it that bad of a disagreement. I didn't know it was that bad.

[Frank]

And yes it's been confusing all the way back to Nitti. The problem is the longer time goes on the harder it gets. Meaning who is alive to even know anything about the Nitti Ricca controversy. I think I've seen more info about Ricca being boss, enough to feel comfortable with him instead of Nitti

[Frank]

And yes it's been confusing all the way back to Nitti. The problem is the longer time goes on the harder it gets. Meaning who is alive to even know anything about the Nitti Ricca controversy. I think I've seen more info about Ricca being boss, enough to feel comfortable with him instead of Nitti

[Snakes]

I'm hopefully going to get some stuff from the FBI that may clear up some confusion post 1986. But who knows, the last time I thought I was getting something useful from them there was literally nothing in 100+ pages that could even be construed as such.

[Frank]

I would hope that somebody isn't trying to put Ferriola as boss still. Lol

[Angelo Santino]

Another coupla projects which may be interesting, but volcanic would be perhaps breaking down these crews individually and showing their succession of Capos/Streetbosses/Whatever as well as soldiers. It would have to be done by era and we'd all have to agree on some parameters. If this is feasible maybe something to think on.

*Question though for Villain, Snakes, Pete, everyone: several years ago there was an ongoing debate regarding Outfit admins being an extension of whatever crew was in charge and that each enjoyed a great deal of autonomy. Is this still a valid ongoing theory? Given the amount of bs that get's presented and discredited it's hard to keep up with.

Second, early 1920's Chicago gangs, I'd be open to making a gang chart on that era. It doesn't have to be limited to Itals. Given the lack of insider knowledge on gang structure it can be as simplified as Leaders and Members or Boss, Leaders, Members; whatever.

[Snakes]

Crew bosses would actually be easier than leadership.

[Angelo Santino]

Crew bosses would actually be easier than leadership.

Really, because I've heard the opposite. If you want to take a crack at it, we can.

[Snakes]

Crew bosses would actually be easier than leadership.

Really, because I've heard the opposite. If you want to take a crack at it, we can.

I have a thread in the charts succession about crew succession.

[cavita]

Another coupla projects which may be interesting, but volcanic would be perhaps breaking down these crews individually and showing their succession of Capos/Streetbosses/Whatever as well as soldiers. It would have to be done by era and we'd all have to agree on some parameters. If this is feasible maybe something to think on.

*Question though for Villain, Snakes, Pete, everyone: several years ago there was an ongoing debate regarding Outfit admins being an extension of whatever crew was in charge and that each enjoyed a great deal of autonomy. Is this still a valid ongoing theory? Given the amount of bs that get's presented and discredited it's hard to keep up with.

Second, early 1920's Chicago gangs, I'd be open to making a gang chart on that era. It doesn't have to be limited to Itals. Given the lack of insider knowledge on gang structure it can be as simplified as Leaders and Members or Boss, Leaders, Members; whatever.

John Binder's latest book has some really good info on all the 1920s gangs that were around.. those that were working with Capone and those against.

[Confederate]

Another coupla projects which may be interesting, but volcanic would be perhaps breaking down these crews individually and showing their succession of Capos/Streetbosses/Whatever as well as soldiers. It would have to be done by era and we'd all have to agree on some parameters. If this is feasible maybe something to think on.

*Question though for Villain, Snakes, Pete, everyone: several years ago there was an ongoing debate regarding Outfit admins being an extension of whatever crew was in charge and that each enjoyed a great deal of autonomy. Is this still a valid ongoing theory? Given the amount of bs that get's presented and discredited it's hard to keep up with.

Second, early 1920's Chicago gangs, I'd be open to making a gang chart on that era. It doesn't have to be limited to Itals. Given the lack of insider knowledge on gang structure it can be as simplified as Leaders and Members or Boss, Leaders, Members; whatever.

I think the theory of the Outfit Administration being an extension of one sometimes two crews that are in Charge is a very valid discussion.
Based upon my research over the last 6 months whih has been extensive, the evidence that I saw that represented this theory came about as follows:
1). When Giancana was the Top Boss on the street, the Taylor Street Crew seemed to be the central power of the Outfit with Giancana, Ricca who supoorted him and Accardo who was with Elmwood Park. the #2 Crew was Ferraro. It apeared to me that Battaglia & Bucciere were Giancana's right hand men and all the guys directly with them made up a big powerful Crew called Taylor St. The other Crews seemed to answser to him and there was some money passed up to the Administration from the other Crews on SOME things, but not on other things that were autonomous.
2). When Auippa became the Top Boss on the Street for the Outfit, the Cicero Crew semed to be the central power of the Outfit with Auippa, Cerone and Accardo. Within the Cicero Crew it appeared that Ferriola and Carlisi were Auippa's right hand men and all the guys with them made up the Cicero Crew. Cerone's Elmwood Park Crew was the #2 with Cerone being in charge. Some things were shared with Auippa and Cerone from the other Crews but not on things that were autonomous. Also, the skim from Las Vegas went to Auippa and Cerone and THEY shared some of it with Lombardo and LaPietra. That's why all four went to Jail in the mid 80's.
3). When Carlisi became the Top Boss of the Outfit on the Street the Melrose Parl Crew (which was part of Cicero) now became the dominant power.
The Elmwood park crew under DiFronzo was the #2. Ferriola and the other Crews Bosses shared some things woth Carlisi and DiFronfronzo that were not Autonomous.
4). When DiFronzo became the Top Boss of the Outfit on the street, Elmwood Park became the dominant crew uunder him. I do not remember who was the #2. It could have been Monteleone who was Boss of Cicero. some things were shared with those two crews that were not autonomous.
5). When Marcello became the Top Boss of the Outfit, Melrose Park became the dominant Crew because DiFronzo pulled bach himself AND his guys.
6). When Sarno became the Top Boss of the Outfit, the Cicero Crew now became the Dominant Crew.
All of these Top Bosses and Underbosses never gave up their Crews to someone else. They were in Charge of their Crews with one or two right hand men, depending on how big the Crew was at a particular time. They never gave up their power base. In fact it seemed that their power base was the REASON why they became a Top Boss over other Crew Bosses.Also, the F.B.I. reports never seperated them from their Crews:
1). Giancana was ALWAYS associated with Taylor St. and had DIRECT contact with all his men.
2). Auippa was always associated with Cicero/Melrose Park.
3). Carlisi, same thing. In fact, when the F.B.I. put Carlisi in jail, they called it the Sam Carlisi Crew. No other people from any other Crew were involved.
4). DiFronzo, same thing. the Feds always related DIFronzo to Elmwood Park.
5). Marcello always was refeered to as the Boss of Melrose Park when he was the Top Boss on the street.
6). Sarno was always referred to as the Boss of Cicero AND the Top Boss on the Street by the Feds.

That is my conclusion based upon all those facts so I think it is a very real possibilty that the Outfit did operate a little differently than New York in this regard along with other things like non Italians high up in the Organization, No finger pricking Ceremony for quite awhile etc. They were part of the National Mafia, but they did do SOME things their own way.

[Villain]

*Question though for Villain, Snakes, Pete, everyone: several years ago there was an ongoing debate regarding Outfit admins being an extension of whatever crew was in charge and that each enjoyed a great deal of autonomy. Is this still a valid ongoing theory? Given the amount of bs that get's presented and discredited it's hard to keep up with.

Thats a natural process, like for example Ricca, Nitti, Campagna, Rio, and Giancana were all Westsiders, especially from around the Near West Side or Taylor St area, who later managed to spread their influence all around the organization and commanded respect and dictated everything which went down. I wouldnt separate the Outfit on crews but instead on sides. Like for example, the Westsiders included Taylor St crew, Elmwood Park crew, Melrose Park and Stone Park crews (future Grand Av crew) and northern Cicero crew, as for the South Side faction it included Near South Side and Loop crew, Chinatown crew, Chicago Heights crew, southern Cicero crew and Northwest Indiana crew. The so-called Northsiders included Near North Side crew, Lake View crew and Rogers Park crew. These crews, in these three separate territories were in alliance with each other and I think that during the decades or in the end, the Westsiders won the "cold war" by absorbing most of the crews and territories under their jurisdiction such as Cicero, Lake View and Chinatown, since they kept their spot at the top administration since the 1930's, with a small disruption during the 1940's. I also believe that this was the way they divided themselves during the old days, such as West, North and South and some times they also used names, like for example when Battaglia controlled more than a half of the West Side they called it Battaglia's Outfit.

By the way, today or tomorrow Ill post the final look of the crew succession list which we previously made and it extends from the 1920's until today, and every crew will be explained with a short bio.

[Confederate]

*Question though for Villain, Snakes, Pete, everyone: several years ago there was an ongoing debate regarding Outfit admins being an extension of whatever crew was in charge and that each enjoyed a great deal of autonomy. Is this still a valid ongoing theory? Given the amount of bs that get's presented and discredited it's hard to keep up with.

Thats a natural process, like for example Ricca, Nitti, Campagna, Rio, and Giancana were all Westsiders, especially from around the Near West Side or Taylor St area, who later managed to spread their influence all around the organization and commanded respect and dictated everything which went down. I wouldnt separate the Outfit on crews but instead on sides. Like for example, the Westsiders included Taylor St crew, Elmwood Park crew, Melrose Park and Stone Park crews (future Grand Av crew) and northern Cicero crew, as for the South Side faction it included Near South Side and Loop crew, Chinatown crew, Chicago Heights crew, southern Cicero crew and Northwest Indiana crew. The so-called Northsiders included Near North Side crew, Lake View crew and Rogers Park crew. These crews, in these three separate territories were in alliance with each other and I think that during the decades or in the end, the Westsiders won the "cold war" by absorbing most of the crews and territories under their jurisdiction such as Cicero, Lake View and Chinatown, since they kept their spot at the top administration since the 1930's, with a small disruption during the 1940's. I also believe that this was the way they divided themselves during the old days, such as West, North and South and some times they also used names, like for example when Battaglia controlled more than a half of the West Side they called it Battaglia's Outfit.

By the way, today or tomorrow Ill post the final look of the crew succession list which we previously made and it extends from the 1920's until today, and every crew will be explained with a short bio.

That's also a valid way of looking at the evolution of how the West Side came to dominate the Outfit. It's also the way the Chicago Crime Commission looked at the Outfit in 1997. They divided it into three basic territories: West, North & South. The only difference is that they put Elmwood Park in the North and had DiFronzo on the Top Level with a South Side Advisor (LaPietra) and a West Side Advisor (Lombardo). Notice: they didn't call either one of them a "Consigliere". Then, they had Three big Underbosses: Andriacchi (North), Centracchio (West) & Monteleone (South). under them were several smaller Street Bosses who had men working under them in their Crews.