Scarfo Jr's relationship with Philly?

[NJShore4Life]

More information on Big Vince Filipelli’s mid 2000s activities in the South Jersey suburbs of Philly:

http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases08/pr20080624b.html

[SonnyBlackstein]

I believe they were trying to get Scarfo Jr shelved by the Lucchese family via the Gambino's so they could kill him.

You can hit a shelved guy without family permission?

[B.]

Grande seems like he was the only one who was willing to be with Scarfo. Seems like Merlino and Ligambi took Scarfo's threat seriously, by 2010 anyway, given that it led to the meeting with John Gambino. From reading that transcript it seemed like Ligambi and Licata wanted to invalidate Scarfo Jr.'s membership since he was never formally released by Philly.

Late 90s may have been a different situation, Scarfo Jr. was not a Lucchese member yet, and Licata's comments about his membership, he said it was a slap in the face, make it clear it rubbed people the wrong way. In Scott's book, Leonetti says that Nicky Jr. mentioned John Ciancaglini shaking him down, I highly doubt any of Merlino's people were friendly with Scarfo Jr. around the time of his 35th birthday.

Also, Staino's comments on Filipelli were from 2004, so he may have came back in the fold fairly quickly.

Didn't realize that recording was from 2004. Was Staino made at that point, referring to a soldier being under him? Could be wrong but I thought he was part of a 2004 or 2005 ceremony. Either way he was already an up-and-coming representative of the Ligambi/Merlino regime, which in Philly is what mattered.

The point of that meeting with the Gambinos did seem to be to invalidate Scarfo's membership, but the question would be what their plan was from there. It could have been more sinister, i.e. they were hoping to kill him, or wanted the option of killing him if he stepped on any more toes. They also may have felt they were due some of the big money Scarfo was making. Not only was Scarfo a former Philly associate who apparently wasn't officially released, but a number of his associates were originally with Philly also, including Pelullo whose brothers were active in the family in the 80s and their uncle was member Frank Nicoletti.

Scarfo Jr. moving to AC as Lucchese NJ captain caused some issues because of who he was and what he was doing, but what's interesting is that crew's leadership has a lot of historic ties to AC. Two old captains of that crew, Joe Abate and Benny Pizzolato, lived in the Atlantic City area while they were captains of the crew. Accetturo was in Florida a significant time, too, so four of the crew's captains spanning decades were running the crew far from North Jersey, with three of them being AC-based.

[Chucky]

Grande seems like he was the only one who was willing to be with Scarfo. Seems like Merlino and Ligambi took Scarfo's threat seriously, by 2010 anyway, given that it led to the meeting with John Gambino. From reading that transcript it seemed like Ligambi and Licata wanted to invalidate Scarfo Jr.'s membership since he was never formally released by Philly.

Late 90s may have been a different situation, Scarfo Jr. was not a Lucchese member yet, and Licata's comments about his membership, he said it was a slap in the face, make it clear it rubbed people the wrong way. In Scott's book, Leonetti says that Nicky Jr. mentioned John Ciancaglini shaking him down, I highly doubt any of Merlino's people were friendly with Scarfo Jr. around the time of his 35th birthday.

Also, Staino's comments on Filipelli were from 2004, so he may have came back in the fold fairly quickly.

Didn't realize that recording was from 2004. Was Staino made at that point, referring to a soldier being under him? Could be wrong but I thought he was part of a 2004 or 2005 ceremony. Either way he was already an up-and-coming representative of the Ligambi/Merlino regime, which in Philly is what mattered.

The point of that meeting with the Gambinos did seem to be to invalidate Scarfo's membership, but the question would be what their plan was from there. It could have been more sinister, i.e. they were hoping to kill him, or wanted the option of killing him if he stepped on any more toes. They also may have felt they were due some of the big money Scarfo was making. Not only was Scarfo a former Philly associate who apparently wasn't officially released, but a number of his associates were originally with Philly also, including Pelullo whose brothers were active in the family in the 80s and their uncle was member Frank Nicoletti.

Scarfo Jr. moving to AC as Lucchese NJ captain caused some issues because of who he was and what he was doing, but what's interesting is that crew's leadership has a lot of historic ties to AC. Two old captains of that crew, Joe Abate and Benny Pizzolato, lived in the Atlantic City area while they were captains of the crew. Accetturo was in Florida a significant time, too, so four of the crew's captains spanning decades were running the crew far from North Jersey, with three of them being AC-based.

John Parisi was another Philly guy working with Scarfo, but he is also a relative.

Who knows when Staino was made, he certainly spoke as if he were a capo in '04 in reference to the Filipelli thing. I think a few guys got in at the end of the 90s, guys like Phil Ligambi or Marty Curro, clearly there were a couple ceremonies given the amount of Boston guys they made. Point being, Staino was probably made before 2004.

[Pogo The Clown]

According to GA Staino was still an Associate at the time of Joe Curro's death in 2004. Though he did say that he was one of the top guys in the family and likely in line for an administration spot with Curro dying and Massimino on his way to prison. So it looks like he already had the stature with his induction being a mere formality.


I just checked and Curro died on April 3, 2004. So Staino could have been made soon after that. According to Joe Licata 5 guys were made in that ceremony which was the first conducted by Ligambi.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

I always thought it was very strange in the Operation Heat affidavit where it talked about that August 2007 meeting between Joseph M. Perna and Scarfo Jr. where Scarfo was informed he was being demoted because of his "alleged boasting that he was assuming a leadership role in the Philadelphia family." And that Scarfo supposedly wanted to be released from the Lucchese family back to Philly but the Luccheses said no.

As we know, Scarfo was chased out of the Philadelphia family, after almost being killed, and his father had to get him made into the Luccheses to protect him. I don't understand why he would think he'd have the clout and be safe to join Philly when Merlino and his followers were still running things.

Scarfo did not ask to be released from the Luchese family that I remember.? If I remember it correctly he asked Little Joe if he word back about permission to move to FL. He was the odd man out in the NJ Luchese crew by that point. He was no longer friends with Merola at that point as well. He didn't have any friends in North Jersey from any of the LCN family crews up there. He also knew that Little Joe was friendly with Merlino as well. I believe he knew the demotion was coming for sometime or he would not have been trying to relocate to FL. Mike Perna was making moves from prison for a longtime to get Ralph bumped up to Capo before Mike T was released. When news came that Marty had a chance and then was being released the Perna faction needed Ralph as Capo asap. That's my two cents with north jersey lcn gossip added in. Not that far fetched.

On pages 50-51 of the Operation Heat affidavit it says his request to be released from the Lucchese family, as well as moving to Florida while maintaining another residence in AC, was part of the conversation between him and Joe Perna that was overheard by the undercover female investigator nearby. In fact, it seems Scarfo had already asked to be released, the NY leadership said no, and then he asked Perna to pass on his request of moving to Florida. Maybe it's possible the conversation wasn't overheard correctly but it's in the report.

[B.]

Anyone know of any Lucchese NJ members inducted in the 90s?

The 2004 NJ SCI report says the Lucchese family held a making ceremony for just one new member in 1996 and that this induction was celebrated in NJ. It doesn't specify if the member was NJ-based, though it being mentioned in a report specifically about the Lucchese NJ crew makes that likely. Could this have been Bucky Caravaggio? JD doesn't have him on the 1991 list of members and by the 1997 indictment he seems to be the main guy in Jersey.

The NJ crew was brought under the D'Arco/Vario crew by the early 90s and Accetturo was the last official captain at that point, I believe. What happened from there? By the mid-90s that crew was in prison or had flipped so I'd assume they continued to report to an NY crew for a few years while the family rebuilt. Did Defede say anything about that? I wonder when the NJ crew became their own official crew again.

Scarfo and Carlo Taccetta were both members by 2004, with Taccetta said to take orders from Caravaggio. Ralph Perna Sr. and Joe Perna were inducted by the mid-2000s as well, with John and the other Joe Perna made not long after. It makes sense why guys like Scarfo and the younger Pernas/Taccettas weren't made until the 2000s, but Ralph Perna is surprising. He was a major player back in the 80s, so either there was a reason he was held back or the Luccheses were reluctant to make NJ members except for that apparent 1996 ceremony. Since Amuso was still boss, he may have held a grudge against the guys out there.

[Rocco]

I believe they were trying to get Scarfo Jr shelved by the Lucchese family via the Gambino's so they could kill him.

You can hit a shelved guy without family permission?

Depends on what shelf the putting him on. If its a low lying shelve anyone can reach him.

Footnote: LCN rule book ch3 pg 45 paragraph 2

[Rocco]

I always thought it was very strange in the Operation Heat affidavit where it talked about that August 2007 meeting between Joseph M. Perna and Scarfo Jr. where Scarfo was informed he was being demoted because of his "alleged boasting that he was assuming a leadership role in the Philadelphia family." And that Scarfo supposedly wanted to be released from the Lucchese family back to Philly but the Luccheses said no.

As we know, Scarfo was chased out of the Philadelphia family, after almost being killed, and his father had to get him made into the Luccheses to protect him. I don't understand why he would think he'd have the clout and be safe to join Philly when Merlino and his followers were still running things.

Scarfo did not ask to be released from the Luchese family that I remember.? If I remember it correctly he asked Little Joe if he word back about permission to move to FL. He was the odd man out in the NJ Luchese crew by that point. He was no longer friends with Merola at that point as well. He didn't have any friends in North Jersey from any of the LCN family crews up there. He also knew that Little Joe was friendly with Merlino as well. I believe he knew the demotion was coming for sometime or he would not have been trying to relocate to FL. Mike Perna was making moves from prison for a longtime to get Ralph bumped up to Capo before Mike T was released. When news came that Marty had a chance and then was being released the Perna faction needed Ralph as Capo asap. That's my two cents with north jersey lcn gossip added in. Not that far fetched.

On pages 50-51 of the Operation Heat affidavit it says his request to be released from the Lucchese family, as well as moving to Florida while maintaining another residence in AC, was part of the conversation between him and Joe Perna that was overheard by the undercover female investigator nearby. In fact, it seems Scarfo had already asked to be released, the NY leadership said no, and then he asked Perna to pass on his request of moving to Florida. Maybe it's possible the conversation wasn't overheard correctly but it's in the report.

I didn't catch that in the indictment. If true by asking to be released and moving to south jersey I don't think he felt too safe under the Perna flag in NJ. Being that guys in his crew(perna) were friendly with Merlino and his friends in South Philly. Not the best place to be. He was pretty much screwed at that point. I think perhaps he got a little cocky because his old man was buddies with Uncle Vic in the prison. But he got busted down by Matty non the less. But based on the transcripts it didn't seem Matty disliked Scarfo Jr. But it was Clear that Joe and Johnny Perna didn't like Scarfo Jr. And they were probably more then happy to pass along info on Scarfo Jr to Merlino and his cronies.

[Rocco]

Anyone know of any Lucchese NJ members inducted in the 90s?

The 2004 NJ SCI report says the Lucchese family held a making ceremony for just one new member in 1996 and that this induction was celebrated in NJ. It doesn't specify if the member was NJ-based, though it being mentioned in a report specifically about the Lucchese NJ crew makes that likely. Could this have been Bucky Caravaggio? JD doesn't have him on the 1991 list of members and by the 1997 indictment he seems to be the main guy in Jersey.

The NJ crew was brought under the D'Arco/Vario crew by the early 90s and Accetturo was the last official captain at that point, I believe. What happened from there? By the mid-90s that crew was in prison or had flipped so I'd assume they continued to report to an NY crew for a few years while the family rebuilt. Did Defede say anything about that? I wonder when the NJ crew became their own official crew again.

Scarfo and Carlo Taccetta were both members by 2004, with Taccetta said to take orders from Caravaggio. Ralph Perna Sr. and Joe Perna were inducted by the mid-2000s as well, with John and the other Joe Perna made not long after. It makes sense why guys like Scarfo and the younger Pernas/Taccettas weren't made until the 2000s, but Ralph Perna is surprising. He was a major player back in the 80s, so either there was a reason he was held back or the Luccheses were reluctant to make NJ members except for that apparent 1996 ceremony. Since Amuso was still boss, he may have held a grudge against the guys out there.

Bucky Caravaggio was not a made guy from what I am told.. He was M & M's money guy for a bit in the 1990s. I don't think he has been active in like 16y-17yrs. I would be shocked if he was still alive hes in horrible shape. He owned a restaurant in morris county in the mid to late 90s. I believe it was Matty that made Ralph Sr as a favor to Mike P when Matty got out. Ralph was suppose to be made in the late 90s but Matty was put in prison again right after he was made. When he got out in 2003 he made Ralph and Joe Perna in late 2003 or early 2004. Then in 2007 Matty made Joe Perna(Mike's son) and John Perna(Ralphs son). For some reason Ralph couldn't get made till Matty got out. I have to assume that Capra was not making anyone most likely because he was really not close to anyone in NJ. He was a Bronx guy I believe. Had the turmoil on the late 80s and early 90s not happened Ralph probably would have been made. Hes been around forever and his old man was on record with the Lucchese family in the late 40s and 50s as a loan shark and bookmaker.

[B.]

You were specifically "told" that Caravaggio wasn't made? Picasso used to say that on the old board but I'm not going into that.

I have had trouble finding any confirmation that Caravaggio was made myself, but Pogo had him on the list. He does seem to have been supervising NJ rackets by the mid-90s, but he could have been an associate at the time. The 2004 report has Carlo Taccetta operating on behalf of Caravaggio but doesn't specify ranks. Caravaggio died this past July, by the way.

Maybe someone can find something from DeFede or someone saying who the supposed NJ member inducted in 1996 was. It wasn't Scarfo, Ralph Perna, the Perna sons, or Carlo Taccetta. Other members like Accardi, Giglio, and Suppa were already made and not sure if they were even active/around by then. Caravaggio is busted in 1997 with what seems to be a supervisory role over Lucchese NJ rackets. With the 1996 induction, having a ceremony to induct just one NJ member following a mass defection/incarceration of the crew's leadership points to this new member being made out of necessity in some kind of supervisory/caretaker role. Not saying it's definitely Caravaggio or that Caravaggio was 100% made, but he fits the circumstances.

[Wiseguy]

I always thought it was very strange in the Operation Heat affidavit where it talked about that August 2007 meeting between Joseph M. Perna and Scarfo Jr. where Scarfo was informed he was being demoted because of his "alleged boasting that he was assuming a leadership role in the Philadelphia family." And that Scarfo supposedly wanted to be released from the Lucchese family back to Philly but the Luccheses said no.

As we know, Scarfo was chased out of the Philadelphia family, after almost being killed, and his father had to get him made into the Luccheses to protect him. I don't understand why he would think he'd have the clout and be safe to join Philly when Merlino and his followers were still running things.

Scarfo did not ask to be released from the Luchese family that I remember.? If I remember it correctly he asked Little Joe if he word back about permission to move to FL. He was the odd man out in the NJ Luchese crew by that point. He was no longer friends with Merola at that point as well. He didn't have any friends in North Jersey from any of the LCN family crews up there. He also knew that Little Joe was friendly with Merlino as well. I believe he knew the demotion was coming for sometime or he would not have been trying to relocate to FL. Mike Perna was making moves from prison for a longtime to get Ralph bumped up to Capo before Mike T was released. When news came that Marty had a chance and then was being released the Perna faction needed Ralph as Capo asap. That's my two cents with north jersey lcn gossip added in. Not that far fetched.

On pages 50-51 of the Operation Heat affidavit it says his request to be released from the Lucchese family, as well as moving to Florida while maintaining another residence in AC, was part of the conversation between him and Joe Perna that was overheard by the undercover female investigator nearby. In fact, it seems Scarfo had already asked to be released, the NY leadership said no, and then he asked Perna to pass on his request of moving to Florida. Maybe it's possible the conversation wasn't overheard correctly but it's in the report.

I didn't catch that in the indictment. If true by asking to be released and moving to south jersey I don't think he felt too safe under the Perna flag in NJ. Being that guys in his crew(perna) were friendly with Merlino and his friends in South Philly. Not the best place to be. He was pretty much screwed at that point. I think perhaps he got a little cocky because his old man was buddies with Uncle Vic in the prison. But he got busted down by Matty non the less. But based on the transcripts it didn't seem Matty disliked Scarfo Jr. But it was Clear that Joe and Johnny Perna didn't like Scarfo Jr. And they were probably more then happy to pass along info on Scarfo Jr to Merlino and his cronies.

The affidavit makes it seems that the NY leadership didn't have any problems with Scarfo other than the press reports about him bragging about taking over parts of the Philly family or whatever. But that, along with his ongoing parole issues, was enough for them to pull him down. It's definitely clear the Pernas were quite happy about it though.

[Pogo The Clown]

I have had trouble finding any confirmation that Caravaggio was made myself, but Pogo had him on the list. He does seem to have been supervising NJ rackets by the mid-90s, but he could have been an associate at the time. The 2004 report has Carlo Taccetta operating on behalf of Caravaggio but doesn't specify ranks. Caravaggio died this past July, by the way.


Maybe someone can find something from DeFede or someone saying who the supposed NJ member inducted in 1996 was. It wasn't Scarfo, Ralph Perna, the Perna sons, or Carlo Taccetta. Other members like Accardi, Giglio, and Suppa were already made and not sure if they were even active/around by then. Caravaggio is busted in 1997 with what seems to be a supervisory role over Lucchese NJ rackets. With the 1996 induction, having a ceremony to induct just one NJ member following a mass defection/incarceration of the crew's leadership points to this new member being made out of necessity in some kind of supervisory/caretaker role. Not saying it's definitely Caravaggio or that Caravaggio was 100% made, but he fits the circumstances.

Same here. Nothing specifically refers to him as being made but all discriptions of him sounds like he was made. JD posted a list of members made by Defede and Caravaggio wasn't on it nor was the single member ceremony in 1996 but I don't know if that was list of all members made during Defede's reign or just those specifically made by Defede. It is also possible tht he was made (if he indeed was) in the post Defede era since we know tht several new members were initiated in the 1998-early 2000s period.


Pogo

[Cheech]

Capture.PNG

[Cheech]

Looks like Bucky has passed
http://www.doylefh.com/obituaries/Rober ... Id=2309870