Bad Blood TV Show-Sal Montagna

[Snakes]

I think it's more protection from outside hits than inside. Everyone knows the risks inherent when entering a criminal organization.

[Angelo Santino]

For Fernandez to travel to Palermo and expect to be recognized as made...

Chris how are you making this inference that he expected to be recognized as made?

If I remember correctly that whole convo he had about being made was with a non made guy.
If he was actually made he'd have been breaking the rules right there.

From what he spoke and how he conducted himself, he was an crocodile expecting to be accepted as an alligator. And Made or not, associates are constantly told things by members, dozens of examples of this.

Here's one article where I formed what little opinion I have of this. It's not something I'm going to fervently argue since there's hardly enough information but I'm also not going to the opposite extreme and say that there is entirely no truth to this. Need more info, another informant proving or disproving this.

In Palermo, Fernandez also met all the local crime bosses. Despite being outlaws, mafiosi have rules of etiquette and Fernandez followed them. He extended greetings from his Canadian master — the Rizzuto name carried weight — and was accepted into Palermo’s crowded underworld.

Most perplexing, to both police and mobsters, was Fernandez’s insistence on being treated as a “man of honour” in Sicily. As a non-Italian, he could not be a “made” member of the Mafia according to the mob’s centuries-old tradition. But Fernandez claimed he was an exception; along with his long-time friend, Quebecer Raynald Desjardins, he claimed Vito Rizzuto had inducted him into the Mafia.

They tapped his phones, his friends' phones, his car, home and even the street outside his apartment.
“Vito ‘made’ me and my compare, Raynald,” Fernandez said, according to wiretaps obtained by the National Post.

“You’re not Italian,” his visitor retorted, “there are rules.”

“Show some respect. I sit at the right hand of God, that’s how close I am,” Fernandez said of his relationship with Rizzuto. “The rule is: ‘The boss makes the fucking rules.’”

http://nationalpost.com/gangland-confid ... -the-mafia

[Lupara]

In Palermo, Fernandez also met all the local crime bosses

How many local crime bosses are there in Palermo, a hundred?

[Angelo Santino]

In Palermo, Fernandez also met all the local crime bosses

How many local crime bosses are there in Palermo, a hundred?

The impression is that he was moving and was accepted in Mafia circles. It doesn't provide much other info.

Again, I'm not arguing that he was 100% made, only that there's more to the story. Without knowing more I can't argue anything for or against.

[Lupara]

In Palermo, Fernandez also met all the local crime bosses

How many local crime bosses are there in Palermo, a hundred?

The impression is that he was moving and was accepted in Mafia circles. It doesn't provide much other info.

Again, I'm not arguing that he was 100% made, only that there's more to the story. Without knowing more I can't argue anything for or against.

I think him throwing the name of Vito Rizzuto around was the reason he was allowed to operate there.

[Angelo Santino]

In Palermo, Fernandez also met all the local crime bosses

How many local crime bosses are there in Palermo, a hundred?

The impression is that he was moving and was accepted in Mafia circles. It doesn't provide much other info.

Again, I'm not arguing that he was 100% made, only that there's more to the story. Without knowing more I can't argue anything for or against.

I think him throwing the name of Vito Rizzuto around was the reason he was allowed to operate there.

I happen to think it could be just that as well. But until more information comes out I'm not jumping to any assumptions. Every time I make a blank statement or assume things is when I fuck up. I was dead wrong when I speculated that Montagna had no clout in Canada and a year later had to eat crow about it after it came out he indeed was a factor. Not that I was dead set on his being inactive but I ended adopting that view when people began immediately jumping to premature conclusions without any information. But they guessed right and I guessed wrong, fair enough. I've never been good at mob fantasy football and when I have been correct it was a stroke of blind luck and not "mob intuition." I'm just gonna wait and see what comes out (if it ever does.)

[dixiemafia]

I think him throwing the name of Vito Rizzuto around was the reason he was allowed to operate there.

Agreed. I think it also shows the clout Rizzuto had as well.

[yatescj7781]

In Palermo, Fernandez also met all the local crime bosses

How many local crime bosses are there in Palermo, a hundred?

The impression is that he was moving and was accepted in Mafia circles. It doesn't provide much other info.

Again, I'm not arguing that he was 100% made, only that there's more to the story. Without knowing more I can't argue anything for or against.

I think him throwing the name of Vito Rizzuto around was the reason he was allowed to operate there.

I happen to think it could be just that as well. But until more information comes out I'm not jumping to any assumptions. Every time I make a blank statement or assume things is when I fuck up. I was dead wrong when I speculated that Montagna had no clout in Canada and a year later had to eat crow about it after it came out he indeed was a factor. Not that I was dead set on his being inactive but I ended adopting that view when people began immediately jumping to premature conclusions without any information. But they guessed right and I guessed wrong, fair enough. I've never been good at mob fantasy football and when I have been correct it was a stroke of blind luck and not "mob intuition." I'm just gonna wait and see what comes out (if it ever does.)

Ahhh. Those old Sal Montagna fights on the RD back in the day were legendary.

[Lupara]

[quote="yatescj]Ahhh. Those old Sal Montagna fights on the RD back in the day were legendary.[/quote]

It was Joeycigars against pretty much everyone else, although I also found his presence there intriguing. He turned out to be right on that one though but got a lot of shit trown at him by some very arrogant posters.

[Angelo Santino]

Ahhh. Those old Sal Montagna fights on the RD back in the day were legendary.

It was Joeycigars against pretty much everyone else, although I also found his presence there intriguing. He turned out to be right on that one though but got a lot of shit trown at him by some very arrogant posters.

Admitably so and I fell into the latter category.

[Lupara]

Ahhh. Those old Sal Montagna fights on the RD back in the day were legendary.

It was Joeycigars against pretty much everyone else, although I also found his presence there intriguing. He turned out to be right on that one though but got a lot of shit trown at him by some very arrogant posters.

Admitably so and I fell into the latter category.

I was thinking of some other posters, who are no longer around afaik. I bet you were just stirring shit up just as Tag did back in those days. It would be fun to be able to read those old discussions on the RD though.

[John W]

Ahhh. Those old Sal Montagna fights on the RD back in the day were legendary.

It was Joeycigars against pretty much everyone else, although I also found his presence there intriguing. He turned out to be right on that one though but got a lot of shit trown at him by some very arrogant posters.

Admitably so and I fell into the latter category.

I was thinking of some other posters, who are no longer around afaik. I bet you were just stirring shit up just as Tag did back in those days. It would be fun to be able to read those old discussions on the RD though.

Im also guilty of colourful converstions with Joey Cigars over at Real Deal about the goings on in Montreal, but I must add we still don't really know what's going on.

Kind Regards

John W

[Lupara]

Ahhh. Those old Sal Montagna fights on the RD back in the day were legendary.

It was Joeycigars against pretty much everyone else, although I also found his presence there intriguing. He turned out to be right on that one though but got a lot of shit trown at him by some very arrogant posters.

Admitably so and I fell into the latter category.

I was thinking of some other posters, who are no longer around afaik. I bet you were just stirring shit up just as Tag did back in those days. It would be fun to be able to read those old discussions on the RD though.

Im also guilty of colourful converstions with Joey Cigars over at Real Deal about the goings on in Montreal, but I must add we still don't really know what's going on.

Kind Regards

John W

But we do know the players.

[Angelo Santino]

My only gripe was with people jumping to conclusions. I do believe in letting the facts come out however long they may take.

I used to have an old FBI report that I obtained around 2002 from 1977 or 78 that states Galante was labeled boss for simplicity sake because they didn't know who to label. I never gave this report any credence, this was before Vitale became an informant and said the same thing. Just imagine the online street cred I could have gained if I had argued Galante was never boss before anyone else did.

As far as JoeyCigars goes, he tried several times to patch things up with me over the years and I was a complete cunt about it out of 'loyalty' to a friend. After the blinders came off I apologized to him in PM and he very kindly accepted. Mighty white of him... Looking back, after a year of me denying Montagna was involved when it came out he was behind Nick Rizzuto, Cigars immediately changed his RD avatar to the book cover of The Sixth Family with Montagna's head imposed over Rizzuto's. Pretty fucking funny.

[Angelo Santino]

Re. Rizzutos. I remember reading and being riveted by The Sixth Family and the narrative told by Humphrey's and LaMothe. Great writing, interesting read, but as we would later find out: highly stylized. If you read the book you walk away with the impression that the Rizzutos are sophisticated elite master chess players who command hundreds of made men and everything the father and son did over the course of 50 years was some Machiavellian plot. The events are accurate but I feel the narrative is hurt by the fact that there's no informants truly explaining the internal workings and they had to rely on speculation.

Following that learning curve, I've kinda placed Montreal in the same category as Chicago in terms of mafia 'black holes.'

But I would suggest that when US'izens discuss Canadian OC, to take into account that:
A) Canadian anti-OC laws are decades behind that of the USA. While no formal study has come out about it I'd guestimate that in 2010 Canada was at 1940's levels and now are slowly easing into the 1970's: they are starting to use laws to combat OC but arguably lack their own version of RICO.
B) The information is much more scarce. I find Canadian articles to be quite frustrating because- I'm sure there's reasons for this- but when they cite knowledge of who an acting boss or leader is and don't fucking name them.
C) Canadian OC- like US OC- goes back MUCH farther. I get this sense that people believe there was a spurt in the 30's and then in the 50's everything took shape. That narrative is as simplified as the American version of Luciano forming the American LCN and requiring "old world" bosses killed or forced down. Toronto has been a hotbed since late 1880-1890. Montreal has been connected with NYC since 1900.
D) It's an area that deserves more study. Just like Australia it has a very exciting history.