Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

[johnny_scootch]

I see the Papalia's on the list. Assuming those are the Todaro family members they spoke about and all the speculation as to the membership of the Violi's was misguided.

If true it has to be a first that a member of American Cosa Nostra has sons who joined the Canadian N'drangheta.

This is a list from 2002 that may have little to do with the current indictment. In terms of family membership Canadian intelligence sometimes differs from the Americans. As an example the RCMP once considered the Rizzutos as their own family while the FBI believes they are Bonanno members. This might be the same case with the Violis.

Wow I didn't notice that it was an old list, thank you. That's what I get for logging on before I've had my first cup of coffee.

[antimafia]

I see the Papalia's on the list. Assuming those are the Todaro family members they spoke about and all the speculation as to the membership of the Violi's was misguided.

If true it has to be a first that a member of American Cosa Nostra has sons who joined the Canadian N'drangheta.

Could you clarify what you meant by the above, which I highlighted in red?

What is a coincidence is that the Violi sons' grandmother on their mother's side was born Domenica Todaro. I've never found an obituary for her online--and I'm sure she has ancestry from Calabria if not the same comune in Calabria where Giacomo Luppino was born--but it's worth investigating on ancestry.ca and other genealogy sites/databases.

[antimafia]

I see the Papalia's on the list. Assuming those are the Todaro family members they spoke about and all the speculation as to the membership of the Violi's was misguided.

If true it has to be a first that a member of American Cosa Nostra has sons who joined the Canadian N'drangheta.

This is a list from 2002 that may have little to do with the current indictment. In terms of family membership Canadian intelligence sometimes differs from the Americans. As an example the RCMP once considered the Rizzutos as their own family while the FBI believes they are Bonanno members. This might be the same case with the Violis.

Wow I didn't notice that it was an old list, thank you. That's what I get for logging on before I've had my first cup of coffee.

I'm not clear on the date of the list because "(1998-02)" appears in the upper left corner of the photo. Derrick Snowdy did write in his tweet that "going back 15 years the Violi’s were a top RCMP target" -- see https://twitter.com/jdsnowdy/status/929407536364703745 -- which means that page is dated 2002.

I think I'll ask him on Twitter to clarify but I'm not looking forward to asking -- he strikes me as ornery.

[johnny_scootch]

I see the Papalia's on the list. Assuming those are the Todaro family members they spoke about and all the speculation as to the membership of the Violi's was misguided.

If true it has to be a first that a member of American Cosa Nostra has sons who joined the Canadian N'drangheta.

Could you clarify what you meant by the above, which I highlighted in red?

What is a coincidence is that the Violi sons' grandmother on their mother's side was born Domenica Todaro. I've never found an obituary for her online--and I'm sure she has ancestry from Calabria if not the same comune in Calabria where Giacomo Luppino was born--but it's worth investigating on ancestry.ca and other genealogy sites/databases.

What I mean to say is that if Paolo Violi sons have joined the Luppino family and are hence members of the Canadian N’drangheta, it has to be a first for a member of an American Mafia Family.

It’s why I personally lean towards Violis sons being the members of the Todaro crime family mentioned in the articles. It could go either way I’m interested to find out the truth.

[Lupara]

I wonder why it's named Todaro crime family, when the Todaros are retired, allegedly.

[JeremyTheJew]

I wonder why it's named Todaro crime family, when the Todaros are retired, allegedly.

as well as i believed that Todaro (and his son?) were the weakest bosses from Buffalo

[Snakes]

Sometimes they will refer to some of the non-NY families after the current boss, as opposed to say, calling it the Buffalo family.

[Lupara]

Sometimes they will refer to some of the non-NY families after the current boss, as opposed to say, calling it the Buffalo family.

But that's the point I'm making, Todaro, Jr. is seemingly retired. Is he one of those indicted?

[gohnjotti]

Sometimes they will refer to some of the non-NY families after the current boss, as opposed to say, calling it the Buffalo family.

But that's the point I'm making, Todaro, Jr. is seemingly retired. Is he one of those indicted?

Todaro Jr. is not indicted, nor are any U.S. members of the Buffalo family I think.

[B.]

I see the Papalia's on the list. Assuming those are the Todaro family members they spoke about and all the speculation as to the membership of the Violi's was misguided.

If true it has to be a first that a member of American Cosa Nostra has sons who joined the Canadian N'drangheta.

This is a list from 2002 that may have little to do with the current indictment. In terms of family membership Canadian intelligence sometimes differs from the Americans. As an example the RCMP once considered the Rizzutos as their own family while the FBI believes they are Bonanno members. This might be the same case with the Violis.

From what I've seen, the RCMP has a very similar mentality to the FBN of the old days -- they define organizations based on criminal association and business relationships, not necessarily the formal organization they're part of. The FBN book shows countless guys referred to as being part of the "Cristofaro Rubino organization" for example, when Rubino was (I believe) a Colombo soldier who just happened to be a major narcotics trafficker and therefore worked with a wide range of guys from different groups and seemed to be an authority due to his position in that particular trade. A lot of early FBI reports show the same sort of mindset.

The RCMP's approach seems to fuel the confusion about Montreal being its own family and even who the formal members" of the Montreal group are. I imagine the same is true in Ontario.

[CabriniGreen]

I think a lot of the problem stems from misunderstanding.

People don't seem to aknowledge how the Narcotics trade works. Essentially, it's a mafia unto itself, with its own hierarchies and rules that MAY OR MAY NOT be in synch with the established LCN structures and rules.

@B

What you just described is EXACTLY how it is. The thing that's tough for guys to understand is, they always want the drug trade to be subverted by mafia rules and structure. But a lot of the time it's the opposite. The mafias rules and structures have to be changed to accommodate the drug trade. Basically, the drug trade is BIGGER than the mafia. Indeed, it's bigger than any one, two, three, five, TEN mafias.

Most of the time, either a narcotics trafficker is connected to the TOP levels of the family, or the family manufactures some kind of rule to ban or control the business...

[antimafia]

I'm not clear on the date of the list because "(1998-02)" appears in the upper left corner of the photo. Derrick Snowdy did write in his tweet that "going back 15 years the Violi’s were a top RCMP target" -- see https://twitter.com/jdsnowdy/status/929407536364703745 -- which means that page is dated 2002.

I think I'll ask him on Twitter to clarify but I'm not looking forward to asking -- he strikes me as ornery.

He provided a reasonable explanation. The date in the upper left corner is like the type of date you see on a form--government, business, and so on--that shows the date of printing. The forms printed in February 1998 were still being used by the RCMP in 2002. The year the list was compiled has been confirmed as 2002.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Zummo denied bail (surprise).
Small clip of Moreno's recording.

https://theislandnow.com/news-98/allege ... nied-bond/

[johnny_scootch]

Thought this list was interesting I found it in Ed Scarpo's latest article on the Bonanno-Canada bust. If it was posted already my apologies I haven't had chance to go back and read all posts in this thread.


Buffalo

Boss
Frank BiFulco

Underboss
Joe Violi (Canada Faction)

Consigliere
Victor Sansanese

Capos
Frank Falzone-
Buffalo,
Six soldiers, took over BiFulco crew.

Anthony Todaro
Buffalo,
Eight soldiers, took over when his brother Joe Jr retired.

Natale Luppino
Hamilton, Canada,
Nine soldiers, took over crew when Violi was moved up to Underboss, who in turn had taken over when Vincent Luppino passed away in 2009.

Bruno Monaco
Toronto, Canada
Five soldiers, took over when Dante Gasbarrini passed away. Gasbarrini became Capo when Paul Volpe was killed, and to get away from Giacomo Luppino and John Papalia of Hamilton.

Russell Carcone
Utica
Six soldiers

Loren Piccarreto/Anthony Chirico- Rochester,
Five soldiers.

When Thomas Marotta came back in the 1990's, he decided to join the Bonanno family and took half of the independent family with him to the Bonanno family. After what happened up in Hamiliton with John Papalia, Rene Piccarreto decided to be more friendlier with Buffalo. When Joe "Lead Pipe Joe" Todaro retired in 2006, Angelo Amico decided to rejoin the Buffalo Family.

Robert Panaro
Las Vegas
No soldiers, Panaro is direct with the family administration and other capos.

"About 12 to 15 members are retired," our source noted.

So about 40 made members are still active in Buffalo.

[Pogo The Clown]

That is one of those wiki style made up lists. Total bullshit.


Pogo