The Outfit's Greatest Hits: Top Ten

[Frank]

Ok thanks. That's very interesting. I see we're that would be the reason to whack him. Also don't you think Aiuppa and Cerone didn't like having him around. He probably disrespected the new administration.

[Villain]

Ok thanks. That's very interesting. I see we're that would be the reason to whack him. Also don't you think Aiuppa and Cerone didn't like having him around. He probably disrespected the new administration.

This is only a theory but I think that in Giancana's eyes, Aiuppa and Cerone were always his underlings, since during Giancana's reign as boss and even previous of that, Aiuppa was forced to share his Cicero territory with members from the old Taylor St group, and as for Cerone, I think that there are several in files in which you can see or somebody stated that Giancana was badmouthing Cerone. So maybe, after his retreat from the Chicago scene, Giancana probably thought of becoming one of the semi-retired top bosses but he was too hot for that kind of position and so I think that it was possibly hard for him to accept the fact, since he was a real stubborn and egoistic maniac, that times were changing and he had to keep his head down, since obviously it was his own fault for bringing it all upon himself, and accept every order from Accardo to respect the up and coming administration, especially guys who used to work for him, meaning Giancana, such as Aiuppa, Cerone or Alex.

[Frank]

Well it seems pretty solid seeing that they ordered his death. Also wasn't Ricca his protector.

[Villain]

Well it seems pretty solid seeing that they ordered his death. Also wasn't Ricca his protector.

I would lean towards the theory that Ricca was more of a Mad Sam's protector rather than Giancana's but its possible

[Pete]

Great info on the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre. Also info on Giancana hit definitely more of a in depth look at who was responsible and why. Didn't Calebrese testify that Accardo ordered the hit because Giancana wasn't paying him tribute. Maybe that was part of the reason. What I don't get he had been out of the country for about 8 years.Thats a long time he got away without paying tribute. I think like you stated they were afraid he was going to talk. No matter how you slice it Accardo had the final say, if it wasn't CIA or some other government agency.

Aiuppa didn't need accardos approval to hit someone. I think this whole this guys the boss but someone else is pulling the strings is completely overblown. Did aiuppa consult with accardo on a lot of things? Sure he did but the whole reason accardo stepped down is because he didn't wanna be the boss anymore. He didn't wanna make the decisions on who gets what and who kills who. He wanted to stay in the background and if someone asked his opinion he would give it. If aiuppa wanted someone gone they were gone. The boss needs approval from no one that's why they are the boss

[Snakes]

Yes, but someone of Giancana's stature would probably at least need the blessing of Accardo if not his outright permission. Aiuppa had been boss for a very short amount of time before that hit.

[Frank]

Yes I agree Snakes

[Villain]

Aiuppa was almost independent until 1981 or 1982 or until Accardos multi-million dollar extortion trial, and obviously he didn't need every time permission from Accardo but dont forget that the old man, and possibly including Alex, was the one who groomed Aiuppa for the boss position and on top of that, Accardo was the one who gave orders to the rest of the captains to respect the new administration, and this is all documented. So whether he liked it or not, or whether anyone understands this or not, Accardo was always looked upon as his mentor, same as the relationships of the previous bosses, Fischetti, Capezio/Accardo; Ricca, Campagna/Accardo; Ricca, Accardo/Giancana and I believe that later Aiuppa groomed Carlisi for that same position and so on...I think that there were some pics of Aiuppa and Carlisi fishing somewhere and I also believe that Tornabene also showed up on one of the pics

[Snakes]

Yes, it's confusing to pinpoint when exactly Accardo stopped being the "last word" in the Outfit but it was probably by the early 80's, as he was spending a lot of time in Palm Springs by that point. As Villain pointed out, the racketeering trial probably was probably a big influence on this decision.

[Villain]

Accardo's problems began at the beginning of 1981, and so he together with Angelo Fosco, James Caporale and Al Pilotto were taken to trial and the next year, Pilotto and Caporale were sentenced to jail, as for Accardo and Fosco, they were dismissed. Now, as Snakes already pointed out, Accardo began spending more of his time out of Chicago and as for Fosco, he remained a "giant" in the union business and took a year salary of over $100,000, which in 1986 reached to $146,000. And so story goes that large part from that cash went to Accardo, which I personally believe that it was just one of his own pension funds. So my point is that Aiuppa might've had some sort of complete independence from 1981/82 until 1984/85 when he went to prison and took some kind of role of a jailed top boss. I believe that when Aiuppa stepped on the scene as independent boss, he was the one who issued an order regarding the street taxes which were paid by the bookmakers to operate in the Chicago area, to be increased from 15 to 25%, and Dave Yaras' son, Lenny was allegedly killed because he refused to pay the extra cash

[Frank]

Speaking of Pilotto, does anyone know if the Pilotto hit was sanctioned by the bosses.

[Frank]

Speaking of Pilotto, does anyone know if the Pilotto hit was sanctioned by the bosses.

[Snakes]

No, but it was thought of as a possibility at the time.

[Frank]

Thanks Snakes. That was something I was wondering for awhile. So the hits that took place after the attempted Pilotto murder we're for trying to kill Capo.

[Dwalin2014]

Villain, since the St.Valentine day massacre was mentioned in the earlier posts, in your opinion did Bob Carey actually kill himself after killing his girlfriend or is the theory about Moran killing him as revenge for the 1929 massacre, more plausible? There is a book about Moran by Rose Keefe which mentions the interview with a former North Side bootlegger, E.Barnett, who says Moran told him that he "had gone to the coast (without mentioning which coast) to take care of a guy named Bob Carey"; Barnett didn't ask for details since he didn't know back then who Carey was, but later, after hearing Carey was identified as a likely participant in the St.Valentine day massacre, theoretically it made sense for Moran to kill him.