Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

[Pogo The Clown]

According to the article this tapped ceremony happend in November 2015. So this informant has been operating as a Bonanno made member for 2 years. This, plus Lovaglio, surely means that more indictments will be coming against the Bonannos.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

I think we could be confusing the issue regards Ragusa.
It is likely he is only 'on record' with one family but intermingles/'associates'/does business with the other as well. The press/Feds might be using the term in its second meaning whilst on the street he might be clearly on record with one family.

If the investigation started by the RCMP then we can assume the CW was flipped and therefor is, a Canadian. This does pose the question as to why he was made by a NY Capo (and an acting at that) (Zummo is from Roslyn Heights Brooklyn). This would imply there is no official or even acting Capo of the Canadian decina of the Bonanno's. Perhaps this indicates there are only remenants left or perhaps the Bonanno's are trying to rebuild/re exert control. Zummo did specifically state 'you only report to the Bonanno's' which is a somewhat interesting statement at a family induction. Being that it's highly implied and generally unnecessary to vocalize.

[Laurentian]

From what I understand of Cosa Nostra rules and family administration, an associate can't working for two or more families at the same time. He only answers to one. Right?

Theoretically yes but I'm sure in the real world it is not so clear cut. A lot of these guy's intermingle and operate with several families.


Pogo

Thanks Pogo for your answer. I've always thought that an associate answers only to a made member (soldier or capo) of a very defined family, be Bonanno, or whatever. He can be loaned to another family only if the family that he works in for agrees to let him go for a certain period to another family. We all know that there are plenty examples of that.

[felice]

I have a Thomas Zummo in my Bonanno madeguys list

[Lupara]

Maybe the Bonannos try to recover what they had lost when the Rizzutos had become independent in the 1970s.

The Rizzutos didn't become independent in the 1970s. Vito was even summoned to New York in '81 to participate in the 3 capos murders. Due to their relationship with Scascia they were given a lot of freedom, but no independence.

[Lupara]

I think we could be confusing the issue regards Ragusa.
It is likely he is only 'on record' with one family but intermingles/'associates'/does business with the other as well. The press/Feds might be using the term in its second meaning whilst on the street he might be clearly on record with one family.

If the investigation started by the RCMP then we can assume the CW was flipped and therefor is, a Canadian. This does pose the question as to why he was made by a NY Capo (and an acting at that) (Zummo is from Roslyn Heights Brooklyn). This would imply there is no official or even acting Capo of the Canadian decina of the Bonanno's. Perhaps this indicates there are only remenants left or perhaps the Bonanno's are trying to rebuild/re exert control. Zummo did specifically state 'you only report to the Bonanno's' which is a somewhat interesting statement at a family induction. Being that it's highly implied and generally unnecessary to vocalize.

Good points.

[Bklyn21]

In the Indictment It states that there were 9 others who were'nt yet identified, Names were'nt released

[Wiseguy]

Calling the remnants the "Todaro Family" also makes it easier to prove they are part of an enterprise, plus it sounds better in press releases and the papers.

Yeah we have seen the same thing when remnants in Rochester, Kansas City, Rockford, Scranton and Cleveland have been indicted years after the family was considered extinct by LE. The feds themselves don't list Buffalo as one of the remaining families.


Pogo

Yeah, I knew as soon as we read "the Todaro family" in some of the articles, some would immediately start jumping to conclusions. Nevermind the feds said just this past March that there really is no family left. Individuals were still there but no leader and no viable organization. Seeing a couple of guys, who are the sons and grandsons of past mob guys (I'm not sure if they themselves are made or just associates) caught up in this bust is reminiscent of what we've seen in some other cities, as Pogo pointed out.

For example, in recent years we have seen some associates or sons of people connected to people who were involved with the Pittsburgh family caught up in video gambling busts. Or, for instance, back in 2010 when a member and some associates (or sons of past KC guys) were involved in that bookmaking bust. But in neither example did we see the feds saying there was still a formally organized, active mob family in those cities. This is what we're seeing now.

[Bklyn21]

@Felice ,There are 9 other so far unidentified canadian mobsters whose names werent released yet supposedly connected/affiliated with the Gambinos and Todaro organization. Salvatore Russo i think is the only person so far to post 500k bail

[Lupara]

Do you guys think it's possible that the Buffalo family moved its operations across the border and its leaders are now based in Southern Ontario?

[HairyKnuckles]

According to the article this tapped ceremony happend in November 2015. So this informant has been operating as a Bonanno made member for 2 years. This, plus Lovaglio, surely means that more indictments will be coming against the Bonannos.


Pogo

I hope so. Mostly because I´m curious to find out what exactly the Bonanno and the Canadians relationship is these days (and what it has been the last 15 years or so). Perhaps these indictments could shed some light on that. It appears that Montagna, when he was deported, tried to take the opportunity to reestablish some kind of connection and that the Violis of Hamilton supported him. Could be that the Violis today are considered with the Bonannos.

Laurentian wrote:
From what I understand of Cosa Nostra rules and family administration, an associate can't working for two or more families at the same time. He only answers to one. Right?

Pogo wrote:
Theoretically yes but I'm sure in the real world it is not so clear cut. A lot of these guy's intermingle and operate with several families.


Pogo

One associate can be operating with several Families. But his "freelancing" so to speak, ends when he is put on record with one specific Family. If you guys remember, Pistone was in a similar situation when he associated with the Greca crew (Colombos) but also Tony Mirra at the same time. His association with two different Family crews ended when Lefty Ruggiero put a claim on him. If Ragusa is associating with two different Familiies now, I doubt he is "on record" with anyone. Another example is Jimmy Labate who worked both with the Bonannos and Gambinos in the pump and dump Wall Street cases from some years ago.

[Pogo The Clown]

Do you guys think it's possible that the Buffalo family moved its operations across the border and its leaders are now based in Southern Ontario?

I don't think they moved their operations since Buffalo was always active in Hamilton. I think what we are seeing here is that the Hamilton Crew (or the remnants of the Hamilton Crew) still operating even though the family in Buffalo is gone.


Pogo

[LcnBios]

In the 1990s Paul Ragusa was on record with Baldo Amato who we know had ties with the Canadian membership.

I have a Thomas Zummo in my Bonanno madeguys list

He was an associate of the Bonannos.

Awhile back I planned to make a topic about Bonanno ceremonies but held off and then forgot about it. This indictment brings the subject back up and is directly related to something that stood out when going back over files on NY inductions post-1976.

None of the Bonanno CWs were made using the blood/saint method. Not one. From Massino in 6/77 to Cicale in 8/03, every made member who flipped had without exception been brought in using the verbal oath and tie-in method described in the DeCav info thread. Some were given the same vague 'way things are' (LE) kind of explanation for it. One of them was told to just imagine a gun and knife were on the table. Now ten years after the mass defections we get evidence of a more recent induction also being carried out that way.

The Bonannos seem to be the only ones in New York who were consistently using an unorthodox ceremony. Very few cases in the other Families (none in Gambino/Colombo so far).

[felice]

I thought it could have been a recent way to avoid troubles, it is so weird they have been doing that for 40 years.

[Laurentian]

According to the article this tapped ceremony happend in November 2015. So this informant has been operating as a Bonanno made member for 2 years. This, plus Lovaglio, surely means that more indictments will be coming against the Bonannos.


Pogo

I hope so. Mostly because I´m curious to find out what exactly the Bonanno and the Canadians relationship is these days (and what it has been the last 15 years or so). Perhaps these indictments could shed some light on that. It appears that Montagna, when he was deported, tried to take the opportunity to reestablish some kind of connection and that the Violis of Hamilton supported him. Could be that the Violis today are considered with the Bonannos.

Laurentian wrote:
From what I understand of Cosa Nostra rules and family administration, an associate can't working for two or more families at the same time. He only answers to one. Right?

Pogo wrote:
Theoretically yes but I'm sure in the real world it is not so clear cut. A lot of these guy's intermingle and operate with several families.


Pogo

One associate can be operating with several Families. But his "freelancing" so to speak, ends when he is put on record with one specific Family. If you guys remember, Pistone was in a similar situation when he associated with the Greca crew (Colombos) but also Tony Mirra at the same time. His association with two different Family crews ended when Lefty Ruggiero put a claim on him. If Ragusa is associating with two different Familiies now, I doubt he is "on record" with anyone. Another example is Jimmy Labate who worked both with the Bonannos and Gambinos in the pump and dump Wall Street cases from some years ago.

Thanks Hairy, it clarifies the case.