Present Day Chicago Outfit

[Confederate]

the poster ChiTown on the GangsterBB forum is a very informative user.

If it is the same guy who used to post as Fratto (among many other names) he has been exposed as liar and bullshitter. An Outfit groupie who simply tries to inflate and cheer on his hometown family. I wouldn't take anything he says seriously.


Pogo

no idea who the guy you're referring to is, I haven't been reading these forums for very long.

But the poster ChiTown in GangsterBB is obviously a neighborhood guy & drops some very interesting names. One of the very (very) few individuals who are knowledgeable on current street level stuff & post online.

I looked in the graveyard section and Chitown is the same guy as Fratto, Grand Ave., Milwaukee Phil. I obviously don't know the guy but I was just answering the question.

[smoker]

As someone who is only really interested in modern Outfit street rackets & current crew makeup, he's the only user on that GangsterBB board that I check for. Otherwise, it's just the same old stuff.

[Confederate]

Isn't there a difference between being a made member of the Nationwide Costa Nostra versus being a member of the Outfit?
Gus Alex would not be a made member of the Mafia but was certainly a high ranking member of the Outfit. I would think any full time crew member who took his orders directly from a superior in his crew would be considered an Outfit member. Maybe that's where there is some grey area sometimes in the indictments with their descriptions of crew members.

Being made into the Outfit holds more weight than it does on the East Coast. And as I stated previously, a capo within the Outfit is comparable to a boss out East.

Gus Alex's power & influence was overstated IMO. He was a valuable piece for them, no doubt, but he wasn't considered one of the boys a la Aleman or The German.

I think you will get a huge argument against that opinion from Villian, Antiliar & Snakes. Gus Alex was actually one of the top 3 for a short while years ago. He was much more valuable to the Outfit than the German. There were not many guys like Humphreys or Alex but there were several guys like the German.

[smoker]

I just don't buy it. I have no doubt that he was very close with the Outfit brass, but I just don't buy him as someone who ran the Outfit along side Black Sam, lol. Also not interested in arguing with anyone & won't engage. Just my personal opinion. He was a respected guy though, and was by all accounts, pretty great at cozying up to politicians.

Also, there was no one like the German. He killed more people for the Outfit than just about anyone. International hitters like him & Nicoletti were what made the Outfit's world go round, and even though most Outfit guys hated Schweihs, he was off 100% off limits due to the lengths he was willing to go to to get jobs done. Almost everyone, save for the roughest made men (Chiaramonti, etc) were afraid of him. That is really saying something when referencing one of the most sadistic, bloodiest OC groups of all time.

[Confederate]

I just don't buy it. I have no doubt that he was very close with the Outfit brass, but I just don't buy him as someone who ran the Outfit along side Black Sam, lol. Also not interested in arguing with anyone & won't engage. Just my personal opinion. He was a respected guy though, and was by all accounts, pretty great at cozying up to politicians.

Also, there was no one like the German. He killed more people for the Outfit than just about anyone. International hitters like him & Nicoletti were what made the Outfit's world go round, and even though most Outfit guys hated Schweihs, he was off 100% off limits due to the lengths he was willing to go to to get jobs done. Almost everyone, save for the roughest made men (Chiaramonti, etc) were afraid of him. That is really saying something when referencing one of the most sadistic, bloodiest OC groups of all time.

I never said Alex was alongside Carlisi, I'm talking about way back in the early 1970's.
Anyway, You got your opinion of what is valuable and I got mine. I would take 1 Gus Alex or 1 Murray Humphreys over 4 Germans every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[smoker]

People definitely have him pegged as running the Outfit in tandem with Carlisi in the late 80s.

[Snakes]

I don't think anyone here has him pegged as running the Outfit with Carlisi. He was undoubtedly one of the top three guys with Accardo and Aiuppa in the early seventies, though. He didnt have an official LCN title but made guys respected and listened to him because the bosses respected and listened to him.

[Snakes]

Also, ChiTown, despite his past, is a good poster now. I give him the benefit of the doubt because it's been years since he ruffled feathers on the Real Deal. Perhaps he was young? I didn't post back then, so I don't know. However, I've spoken with him several times outside of the forums and he comes off as credible. This may not matter to some people but he doesn't post here anyway, so it is what it is.

[Wiseguy]

Isn't there a difference between being a made member of the Nationwide Costa Nostra versus being a member of the Outfit?
Gus Alex would not be a made member of the Mafia but was certainly a high ranking member of the Outfit. I would think any full time crew member who took his orders directly from a superior in his crew would be considered an Outfit member. Maybe that's where there is some grey area sometimes in the indictments with their descriptions of crew members.

This is another topic that comes up often when the Outfit is discussed. And inevitably people will bring up ancient history with guys like Jake Guzik, Murray Humphries and Gus Alex - all long in their graves.

It's a matter of debate and speculation when the Outfit started using the traditional blood and fire ceremony and whether it's continued to be used in recent years. But whatever ethic differences set Chicago apart in the past haven't been the case for a long time. For years now the Outfit has been about as much an Italian thing as the other families. You have guys who are made (formally inducted) members of the Outfit as well as members of a specific crew. Then you have guys who are members of those crews but haven't been formally inducted and don't have made status, ie associates. Joey Lombardo may be an exception which I've mentioned before. And there really isn't any significant difference in the hierachy either other than guys being labeled "area bosses" or "crew bosses" than captains. They really aren't bosses in their own right any more than a captain in New York is.

Also, ChiTown, despite his past, is a good poster now. I give him the benefit of the doubt because it's been years since he ruffled feathers on the Real Deal. Perhaps he was young? I didn't post back then, so I don't know. However, I've spoken with him several times outside of the forums and he comes off as credible. This may not matter to some people but he doesn't post here anyway, so it is what it is.

He wouldn't have has been as insufferable as he was if he didn't make things so personal. But whenever he couldn't win a a debate because the known facts didn't support his case, he would start in with personal attacks like going on about Pogo being racist or me being Mormon, as if that anything to do with the topic at hand. On top of that he would post pictures of Chicago mob people and, even though we're on the internet and pictures can be obtained in a lot of places, expected that in itself to give him instant and unquestioned credibility. Lastly, with comments like "The Outfit still has Chicago in an iron grip," he just didn't have a realistic view of modern day Outfit.

[smoker]

Most people come to these forums to read insider info from guys who perhaps live in & frequent these neighborhoods, and are close to wise guys & have an ear to the street in the area of interest. That's certainly why I joined, and it's why KTF Media & American News Post had any readers whatsoever. Anyone can just peruse some history books & read articles and just recite them ad nauseum. I'm not aware of ChiTown's history or whatever, but from what I've read, he's undoubtedly the most knowledgable user on GangsterBB regarding the current Outfit. There are a few people on an Outfit Facebook group that could give him a run for his money, but are more tight lipped because it isn't an anonymous forum.

At first, Snakes, I thought you were referring to this lunatic that used to post on KTF/ANP named The Don. If you followed those sites in their heydays, you know of this psycho. I heard he had a borderline mental breakdown on the GangsterBB forum a few years back.

[Snakes]

Nope, he was a fraud that duped a lot of people, including myself, into thinking he knew what he was talking about. Now that there are several well-informed Chicago posters around, he was exposed and basically banned himself from the board.

[Confederate]

Nope, he was a fraud that duped a lot of people, including myself, into thinking he knew what he was talking about. Now that there are several well-informed Chicago posters around, he was exposed and basically banned himself from the board.

Yes, I remember reading a lot of stuff on ANP years ago but that Site is now basically dead. I remember two guys posted a lot. One was the guy you mentioned and another was a guy named Black (Something). There were some interesting things on there but there was also a lot of speculation and fanboy bullshit.
I remember Fosco got really pissed about being called out on his questionable extortion story and there was a big argument over it. It was entertaining to say the least.
This Site is much much better.

[Wiseguy]

Side note: the Grand Avenue Crew owns the most popular strip club in Chicago proper, the Admiral Theatre. They also own arguably the most successful strip joint in Las Vegas, Club Paradise, all through their man Sam Cecola. I believe they used to merely tax The Admiral, but then installed Cecola after they murdered the previous owner of the Admiral, Patsy Ricciardi.

Incidentally, Cecola doesn't own Club Paradise anymore. He sold it to a Korean businessman a few years ago.

[Pogo The Clown]

To add to what Wiseguy said Fratto was also exposed as a liar when he claimed to have inside knowledge about the Outfit. When pressed about it he finally admitted that he had no inside knowledge. Of course that didn't stop him from coming back years later trying to claim being connected by using some Facebook pictures he found. He also tried to give the forum an ultimatum using said pictures but that is another matter.


In addition to his "The Outfit still has Chicago in an iron grip" remark he also made similiar fanboy claims like how Chicago has over 100 made members and how they were more powerful than the Genovese family. My personal favorite was when he claimed the Outfit had connections to Obongo and that this was an example of their political power.


Pogo

[smoker]

That's crazy, poor The Don heh. I was actually sifting through an old article from American New Post last week, and I came upon one of The Don's masterpieces: He weaves this tale about this time he came face to face with Willie Messino on his own accord (like sought him out) on behalf of his "uncle", and told him how it was & Messino respected him or some ridiculous nonsense. You cant tell even Fosco ain't buyin it.