1983 list (Brooklyn)

[johnny_scootch]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GN3hK ... sp=sharing

Blue - Gambino
Purple - Lucchese
Green - Bonanno
Yellow - Colombo
Red - Genovese

[felice]

Nice map

[Angelo Santino]

I was going to do exactly this but somebody (you?) beat me to it. If it's yours are there any plans on completing it?

Also, Scootch, what's your experience with 80's social clubs? I'm assuming you've seen the similar google map of mob hangouts, would you be able to pick out the ones open in 83 or if easier which ones weren't?

[johnny_scootch]

Thank you felice. Yeah Chris I did it a while back just never shared it, I'll probably add Queens when I have time but I'd really like to add the Decavalcante family brooklyn members before that. Is there any sort of comparable list for that family from around same time period?

As far as social clubs they were a dime a dozen back then some would be open for 50 years and some would last 5 months, some operated by the cousin of a wannabe and some by a captain of cosa nostra. Not all social clubs created equal. I was still young in 83 wouldn't have much knowledge beyond my area of brooklyn.

[B.]

Nice job with this.

[Angelo Santino]

Thank you felice. Yeah Chris I did it a while back just never shared it, I'll probably add Queens when I have time but I'd really like to add the Decavalcante family brooklyn members before that. Is there any sort of comparable list for that family from around same time period?

As far as social clubs they were a dime a dozen back then some would be open for 50 years and some would last 5 months, some operated by the cousin of a wannabe and some by a captain of cosa nostra. Not all social clubs created equal. I was still young in 83 wouldn't have much knowledge beyond my area of brooklyn.

Not that I know of for the DeCavs.

[Confederate]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GN3hK ... sp=sharing

Blue - Gambino
Purple - Lucchese
Green - Bonanno
Yellow - Colombo
Red - Genovese

That map is amazing! Are you sure you don't work for the F.B.I ? LOL
Seems like the New York Families back in '83 were all over the frickin' place. Weren't they ORIGINALLY years ago each centered in a specific borough of New York? When did it change and each area become basically a free for all?

[johnny_scootch]

Weren't they ORIGINALLY years ago each centered in a specific borough of New York? When did it change and each area become basically a free for all?

The First two families originated in East Harlem then one in Brooklyn and ever since then its a been a free for all.

[johnny_scootch]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GN3hK ... sp=sharing


I have added Queens to the map.

This 1983 list is far from perfect if anyone notices any mistakes (Double listing or wrong family affiliations) please let me know.

Also confirmed addresses of any Decavalcante members who reside in NY at this time would be appreciated.

[Selig]

Weren't they ORIGINALLY years ago each centered in a specific borough of New York? When did it change and each area become basically a free for all?

The First two families originated in East Harlem then one in Brooklyn and ever since then its a been a free for all.

Not sure that the first "two" families originated in East Harlem. Didn't the Lupo/Aquila/Mangano/Anastasia/Gambino's originate in Little Italy? I recollect from an informer article. I could be wrong.

[Angelo Santino]

Weren't they ORIGINALLY years ago each centered in a specific borough of New York? When did it change and each area become basically a free for all?

The First two families originated in East Harlem then one in Brooklyn and ever since then its a been a free for all.

Not sure that the first "two" families originated in East Harlem. Didn't the Lupo/Aquila/Mangano/Anastasia/Gambino's originate in Little Italy? I recollect from an informer article. I could be wrong.

It's hard to tell where the Gambinos formed, but Brooklyn had a Little Palermo going back to late 1870's/1880's. Manhattan's Little Italy was originally Mulberry Bend, which were wooden shanties torn down in the 1890's. In this time the Italians that stayed in Manhattan went a few blocks north to the Elizabeth St area which in 1890 was predominantly Irish and by 1893 only a few elderly Irish residents remained in what was now "Little Italy." Mulberry Bend, despite being torn down was remembered as the 5 Points neighborhood and where the gang of the same name got it from.

You had the First Family (Gambinos) with Palermitan roots going back to the 1860's or 1870's. It's very difficult because there were Mafiosi in New York and Brooklyn (separate cities before 1899) since the 1850's but most likely not enough members to constitute anything as an entity. They were mostly in 'South Brooklyn' (Red Hook, Brooklyn Heights etc), Lower Manhattan and Midtown. We'll call this the South. In 1912, for reasons we can only speculate upon, a secondary Palermitan Family was allowed to Form, headed up by Mineo who had only been in the USA for a year. (Remember, by 1910 you had by this time Italians and presumably members who had been in the US for 10-30 years, by this time you're seeing a few American born Italians coming into their teens. For this guy to arrive from Palermo with his brother in law- boss of a prominent Palermo Mafia Family, and then a year later is boss of a brand new family is very interesting and I would argue very rare.

In the 1880's and 1890's you had East Harlem form a secondary Italo colony and from there expanded into the Bronx up to Westchester. The Corleonesi began as a group most likely no later than 1897, however there were Mafiosi there before that. It's possible their affiliation was with the Gambinos (First Family) before forming the second or third group in 1897ish. In 1923 they split into two groups- the modern day Genoveses and Luccheses.

The Bonannos of Williamsburg formed independently of both "The South" and "The North". As early as 1898 but certainly no later than 1895. I spoke about Antonino Governale and his significance- directly or indirectly- in getting this family formed. Paolo Orlando is most likely the first boss of the Bonannos, having previously been boss of Tunis in the 1890's before getting deported and arriving here.

In the 1900's the Mafia is primarily Sicilian, in the late 1910's you start seeing so-called mainland members here and there, by 1925 mainland members, crews and captains became quite common. Members move around and like to congregate. Theoretically, if there's not a war going on with the Genoveses, it's safe to go to Harlem and open up a racket, just as so long it's not infringing on the members already there. He wouldn't be approached and told to get out of Harlem back to Brooklyn. If that were the case there'd be no point in being part of the same honored society. Also factor in economic mobility, with better income they moved to better places (and vice versa with worse income). Little Italy, for the most part of most of the 20th century, was a slum. It's were people arrived and paid cheap rent (shared with another family) and worked until they could move to Jersey, Bronx or the ever expanding southern border of developing Brooklyn.

But Little Italy, for the better part of 100 years had all 5 groups operating there. Today it's a tourist trap being swallowed by Chinatown. East Harlem is now Spanish Harlem, Brooklyn is being gentrified like the city was. Today's Mafia is mostly in Staten Island and pockets of Brooklyn (the South) and more and more the Bronx which I believe how has the largest Little Italy. This goes back to the housing market in 2004 when Brooklynites who said fuck Staten Island their whole life cashed out at the opportunity and relocated there as well as Long Island.

[bronx]

Chris , bath beach italians started moving to colts neck,manalapan, freehold area started around 1990 later on the people that jumped the bridge from bklyn to s.i. then migrated to those areas as well .. i know you have this already just sharing with the board.. do you live in N.J.?

[B.]

In your article you say it's not clear whether it was D'Aquila or Mineo who took over directly for Lupo, which is sort of like the discussion about whether the Lucchese or Genovese are "technically" the continuation of the Morello family, but it doesn't seem clear to me that a new family was created at that time either, only that Mineo and D'Aquila were bosses from that point forward. Is there a source who specifically says Mineo (or possibly D'Aquila) took over a new family, or is there any possibility that this "second" Palermitani family existed pre-1911 and Mineo simply took it over as the new boss?

The Profaci family (which is probably the Mineo family) can trace its Villabate roots to Giuseppe Fontana, said to be an influential member under D'Aquila. If the Mineo family split off and eventually became the Profaci family, then I would guess it included Fontana's people. I've never been completely sold on the idea that Fontana was "just" a captain in the D'Aquila family, though... I believe he was a boss in Villabate and reports have him meeting with the highest ranking members in both Sicily in the US.

It's confusing territory with these bosses from Sicily coming to the US, though. This came up in the Vincenzo Troia topic when we found out he was the boss of San Giuseppe Iato when he fled to the US. He was recognized as a top figure in the US at the time of the Castellammarese war but it's not clear if he was boss of a small US family or if his status as boss of SGI was simply recognized in the US for political reasons. Maranzano is another example, as he was a top boss in Sicily and apparently became a soldier in the US but held the influence of a top leader before he became the official boss. If Fontana was a boss in Sicily, it's hard not to imagine he had more influence than the average member. What that influence amounted to, who knows.

D'Arco is always good at mucking up these types of discussions with his "history"... in his book he says that original Vario crew captain Salvatore Curiale went back to the days when there was one family in Brooklyn. It's not hard to imagine the Gambino and Profaci Brooklyn groups were part of one family, but hard to say with the other families. Would be interesting if what D'Arco is referring to is the Mineo family. Curiale could have switched families during/after the war, and the Frankie Yale crew would end up with ties to both the Profaci and Genovese family, so that group could have been under Mineo previously. The Bonanno family doesn't seem to have come from Mineo at all, but that was a much different part of Brooklyn. It doesn't seem completely insane to me that Mineo may have had most of South and East Brooklyn under his control, or at least the dominant presence there.

[Confederate]

This may be a little off topic, but you mentioned Maranzano was a Boss in Sicily and then came over to New York as a soldier before becoming a Boss.
I thought the Boss, Underboss, Consigliere, Capo, Soldati structure came about AFTER the war with Joe Masseria was over. Maranzano was the one who implemented this Structure and said there were 5 Families with himself being the boss of one of the Families and the Boss of Bosses. Then, after Maranzano was killed, Luciano became a Boss and implemented the National Commission which extended across the Country and said there would be NO Boss of Bosses. Am I correct?

[Pogo The Clown]

the Frankie Yale crew would end up with ties to both the Profaci and Genovese family, so that group could have been under Mineo previously.

According to Joe Bonanno Frankie Yale was a Capo under Masseria.

This may be a little off topic, but you mentioned Maranzano was a Boss in Sicily and then came over to New York as a soldier before becoming a Boss.
I thought the Boss, Underboss, Consigliere, Capo, Soldati structure came about AFTER the war with Joe Masseria was over. Maranzano was the one who implemented this Structure and said there were 5 Families with himself being the boss of one of the Families and the Boss of Bosses. Then, after Maranzano was killed, Luciano became a Boss and implemented the National Commission which extended across the Country and said there would be NO Boss of Bosses. Am I correct?

The 5 families and the structure existed long before Maranzano.


Pogo