Was Joe Lombardo ever boss of the Outfit, even briefly?

[Lupara]

What did New York do what made them savages in Accardo's eyes? I cannot think of more gruesome murders that happened in New York than in Chicago. I think the Outfit was responsible for more murders than one of the Five Families. More loose cannons in Chicago as well. Was he getting senile when he made that response?

Because of the high profile murders Mangano, Anastasia, Colombo, Eboli, Banana wars etc. which most occurred during the time when the mob was on its highest level. And what Snakes already pointed out is true

I don't see why a sanctioned hit on a boss would make them savages. Capone killed other bosses as well. Not for nothing Puzo described Chicago as mad dogs and I agree. But it's just a matter of opinion I guess.

[Villain]

What did New York do what made them savages in Accardo's eyes? I cannot think of more gruesome murders that happened in New York than in Chicago. I think the Outfit was responsible for more murders than one of the Five Families. More loose cannons in Chicago as well. Was he getting senile when he made that response?

Because of the high profile murders Mangano, Anastasia, Colombo, Eboli, Banana wars etc. which most occurred during the time when the mob was on its highest level. And what Snakes already pointed out is true

I don't see why a sanctioned hit on a boss would make them savages. Capone killed other bosses as well. Not for nothing Puzo described Chicago as mad dogs and I agree. But it's just a matter of opinion I guess.

I completely agree with you but the thing is, thats mostly taken from our point of view, including Puzo, as ordinary individuals. For example, in Accardo's eyes, blinded by his criminal mentality, all of those "Action Jackson" style murders were everyday thing and it was all business or protection. So Accardo was also the boss right, so believe me he did not like the idea of bosses being killed quite often and that is why, it was the main reason for him allegedly calling the NY boys "savages". Discipline was the main thing on which the Chi boys relayed on. In addition, I also believe that those references possibly occurred after the Eboli and Colombo murders, since there was this alleged convo between him and Ricca in some restaurant or something, shortly before Riccas death...and also Capone killed mostly rivals if we exclude the Esposito murder, who in turn wasnt Als boss but instead they were business partners

[Lupara]

Yeah I can understand Accardo's point of view the way you explain it. New York was also more fragmented with many factions, even within families. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there were civil wars within the Outfit since Capone other than some housecleaning.

[Snakes]

That would be correct. Nobody was ever powerful enough to seriously challenge the Outfit hierarchy. Those who did were typically lower level and dealt with quickly, i.e. rogue bookmakers, thieves, etc.

[Villain]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there were civil wars within the Outfit since Capone other than some housecleaning.

Thats correct since from that period it operated as one organization with housecleanings which occurred almost every decade

[Frank]

Does anyone know if Al Pilotto, failed hit was sanctioned by Accardo Aiuppa or that it was unsanctioned hit of a Capo.

[Snakes]

Unsanctioned

[scott22]

I'm pretty sure Accardo signed off on the attempt on Piloto's life on the golf course. They were under indictment together out of FLA at that time and Accardo was heard bad-mouthing Piloto in the months before the attempted hit, per CCC and FBI documents.

Scott

[Snakes]

If you look close at that hit it was a fiasco from the beginning. That whole job was a keystone cop type affair.

[Frank]

Wasn't the people on the hit team killed part of Family Secrets. Could have been them on their own or Accardo or even Albert Tocco. Pilotto never broke omerta.

[Snakes]

Nick D'Andrea was in on the planning of the hit, which was why he was killed. He was part of a group of guys looking to gain influence in the Heights by killing Pilotto, along with Richard and Sam Guzzino. The latter was also killed.

[Frank]

So they were killed for trying to wack capo.,not for failing on the hit.

[Snakes]

Yes, that's my impression

[Frank]

I agree because if you can't trust your Capos then who can you trust. There were others in that era that didn't get wacked for getting indicted like The Clown, DiVarco, Lapietra. The only difference they weren't indicted with Accardo.It always made me wonder if he just wasn't taking any chances.

[scott22]

I didn't say it was a well executed hit lol. We know that Sam Guzzino told people it was "blessed," whether it actually was I suppose can be debated. However, considering his situation with Accardo and what FBI informants have said, I'm pretty confident in saying these guys weren't going rogue.

Scott