Nick calabrese testimony

[Pete]

I've been going through my transcripts of nicks testimony the past few days and found a few interesting things. According to nick who was on the streets until 97, aiuppa was the boss till 86, then carlisi, then Johnny apes monteleone. He describes joe ferriola as leader of the wild bunch but never the boss and says specifically he was never even a capo. Now we have known for some time ferriola wasn't actually a boss but I found it interesting he says he was never even a capo. Also goes against common thought that difronzo took over for carlisi. Nick says that it was apes from when carlisi went to jail until nick went to jail in 97. He said he had no knowledge what happened after he went away

[Snakes]

Remember that DiFronzo was imprisoned from 1992 until 1994. Monteleone was also named by Spano as boss in the mid to late nineties. Frank, Sr., in the prison convos with Jr. (1999-2000) said that DiFronzo had stepped down "a while back" (or something to that effect - I'd have to find the exact transcript). The way I interpret the whole situation is that DiFronzo was next in line to Carlisi (and was referred to as "street boss for Carlisi") but when he went to prison he appointed someone as acting boss in his stead. When he was released, he stepped down and took a position very similar to Accardo. Monteleone was the boss on the street until his death and then probably Marcello for a brief period of time before Family Secrets.

As far as the whole situation with Ferriola was concerned, it's probably an issue of semantics. Ferriola was over not only the Wild Bunch but Infelise, Marino, Solly D, and that whole crew as well - not to mention Cortina and Angelini. Scarpelli certainly thought that Ferriola was on a boss or capo level according to interviews done with him before he died.

[Fughedaboutit]

I've been going through my transcripts of nicks testimony the past few days and found a few interesting things. According to nick who was on the streets until 97, aiuppa was the boss till 86, then carlisi, then Johnny apes monteleone. He describes joe ferriola as leader of the wild bunch but never the boss and says specifically he was never even a capo. Now we have known for some time ferriola wasn't actually a boss but I found it interesting he says he was never even a capo. Also goes against common thought that difronzo took over for carlisi. Nick says that it was apes from when carlisi went to jail until nick went to jail in 97. He said he had no knowledge what happened after he went away

Could you share a link or upload?

I remember after the trial the chicago fbi site had all of this, all of the photos and evidence and audio on some things, it was great...

Appears to have been deleted!

[Pete]

I've been going through my transcripts of nicks testimony the past few days and found a few interesting things. According to nick who was on the streets until 97, aiuppa was the boss till 86, then carlisi, then Johnny apes monteleone. He describes joe ferriola as leader of the wild bunch but never the boss and says specifically he was never even a capo. Now we have known for some time ferriola wasn't actually a boss but I found it interesting he says he was never even a capo. Also goes against common thought that difronzo took over for carlisi. Nick says that it was apes from when carlisi went to jail until nick went to jail in 97. He said he had no knowledge what happened after he went away

Could you share a link or upload?

I remember after the trial the chicago fbi site had all of this, all of the photos and evidence and audio on some things, it was great...

Appears to have been deleted!

Sorry bud I have paper copies that I got from a request. Had them like 10 years just found them when cleaning out my garage so I decided to reread everything

[Pete]

Remember that DiFronzo was imprisoned from 1992 until 1994. Monteleone was also named by Spano as boss in the mid to late nineties. Frank, Sr., in the prison convos with Jr. (1999-2000) said that DiFronzo had stepped down "a while back" (or something to that effect - I'd have to find the exact transcript). The way I interpret the whole situation is that DiFronzo was next in line to Carlisi (and was referred to as "street boss for Carlisi") but when he went to prison he appointed someone as acting boss in his stead. When he was released, he stepped down and took a position very similar to Accardo. Monteleone was the boss on the street until his death and then probably Marcello for a brief period of time before Family Secrets.

As far as the whole situation with Ferriola was concerned, it's probably an issue of semantics. Ferriola was over not only the Wild Bunch but Infelise, Marino, Solly D, and that whole crew as well - not to mention Cortina and Angelini. Scarpelli certainly thought that Ferriola was on a boss or capo level according to interviews done with him before he died.

I get what your saying about ferriola I just found it interesting because he was asked point blank at two different times in testimony was he a capo? And he said no. When they said well what was he nick replied he was just a moneymaker. Then later expanded and also said he led the wild bunch. It's not abnormal for a soldier to have a crew of associates under him but like you pointed out, infelise, Marino, scarpelli, and solly d were all made guys and they also reported to him in the 80's. One point where they discussed ferriola and his role was in regards to the spilotro hit which was 86. He also identified that at that time carlisi and difronzo were boss and underboss which really I think is when everyone realized who was really in charge then. Up until that point everyone was convinced ferriola was the boss from 86-89 because that's what the FBI said

[Pete]

Also he said marcello became capo of carlisi crew when carlisi became boss in 86

[Snakes]

They knew about Carlisi for a while prior to Nick's testimony. Lenny Patrick in his testimony and Gerald Scarpelli in his FBI interrogation both stated that Carlisi was the boss of the Outfit. DiFronzo was identified by federal sources as the "street boss of the Outfit" for Carlisi when they were indicted in the Rincon Indian Reservation casino case.

A couple of other interesting points:

Ferriola wasn't at the making ceremony but the rest of the capos were. Not only this, but Infelise was sponsored by LaPietra. Perhaps this could be explained away by saying Ferriola was ill but maybe there was more to it than that. Still, that a guy like Ferriola had two or three crews (Wild Bunch, Infelise crew, and Cortina bookmaking crew) reporting to him throughout the eighties and wasn't considered a capo is strange. Not to mention, his territory was huge, encompassing Cicero, western Cook County, and Lake County. Scarpelli also considered him to probably be the highest-ranking Outfit guy next to Carlisi.

[Pete]

They knew about Carlisi for a while prior to Nick's testimony. Lenny Patrick in his testimony and Gerald Scarpelli in his FBI interrogation both stated that Carlisi was the boss of the Outfit. DiFronzo was identified by federal sources as the "street boss of the Outfit" for Carlisi when they were indicted in the Rincon Indian Reservation casino case.

A couple of other interesting points:

Ferriola wasn't at the making ceremony but the rest of the capos were. Not only this, but Infelise was sponsored by LaPietra. Perhaps this could be explained away by saying Ferriola was ill but maybe there was more to it than that. Still, that a guy like Ferriola had two or three crews (Wild Bunch, Infelise crew, and Cortina bookmaking crew) reporting to him throughout the eighties and wasn't considered a capo is strange. Not to mention, his territory was huge, encompassing Cicero, western Cook County, and Lake County. Scarpelli also considered him to probably be the highest-ranking Outfit guy next to Carlisi.

I believe most people thought carlisi took over in 89 for ferriola. That was what was written in most books I have read about the outfit. Roemer was very convincing in his story about when ferriola was supposedly made boss. I recall even on the forums people not believing that ferriola was never boss because it was reported for so long

Also I never thought about the fact you bring up that nick said infelise was represented by his capo at the ceremony and it wasn't ferriola. I'll reread the transcript but I thought nick said carlisi was infelise sponsor

[Snakes]

The problem with Roemer's story is that he makes an almost unforgivable sin, at least in my eyes, by placing Al Pilotto at that 1986 meeting. Pilotto was very much in prison at that time. Not to mention the phony sounding dialogue. I think he just took the general consensus at the time - Ferriola as boss - and embellished it. Not real sure what to make of him saying he had an informant at that meeting but the Spilotro book was filled with so many other mistakes that it's totally plausible that he goofed up the circumstances surrounding that.

[cavita]

Wasn't Carlisi boss in '86?

[Snakes]

Yes, although Ferriola was assumed to be boss until Scarpelli flipped. Scarpelli confirmed that Carlisi had succeeded Aiuppa. Lenny Patrick later confirmed this.

Carlisi was not a well-known figure in 1986. He had a couple of gambling arrests in the sixties and had been convicted of tax fraud but nobody really suspected that he was a contender for boss. Ferriola was much more prominent, ran a vast amount of Outfit territory, and had been a player for years. A lot of informants probably also thought that he was the boss simply based on the above.

[Pete]

Yes, although Ferriola was assumed to be boss until Scarpelli flipped. Scarpelli confirmed that Carlisi had succeeded Aiuppa. Lenny Patrick later confirmed this.

Carlisi was not a well-known figure in 1986. He had a couple of gambling arrests in the sixties and had been convicted of tax fraud but nobody really suspected that he was a contender for boss. Ferriola was much more prominent, ran a vast amount of Outfit territory, and had been a player for years. A lot of informants probably also thought that he was the boss simply based on the above.

Any links on what scarpelli gave them?

[Antiliar]

I asked about Scarpelli's FBI file. I forget how much they wanted, but it was anywhere from several hundred to several thousand dollars.

[Frank]

I read somewhere that Ferriola's job was overseeing all outfit gambling since late 70s.

[Snakes]

Angelini and Cortina reported to him for many years. They had the biggest book in Chicago, maybe one of the biggest of the nation, too.